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FIND OUT MORE ABOUT PERMACULTURE

Join me to learn more about permaculture. Come and explore the many free permaculture resources my Our Permaculture Life Youtube channel and subscribe to this blog below.

The world needs more permaculture teachers everywhere – local teachers share local ways for one planet living. Let’s work toward a climate-safe future through design, resilience and connection. For you that may be through film and story, kids clubs, workplace education, or hands-in the earth. Whatever the way that moves you to speak up and share, I wholeheartedly encourage.

If that inpsires you, I invite you to join the Permaculture Educators Program with others from 6 continents to explore what that might look like and how you can make the change. This is a comprehensive online course that includes the Permaculture Design Certificate and the only online Permaculture Teacher Certificate anywhere. We are a global learning community. People all over the world encourage you to be the change you want to see in the world.

PERMACULTURE FOR REFUGEES

We support free permaculture education for people in refugee camps. Help by donating to Ethos Foundation– our registered charity.

JOIN THE GLOBAL PERMAYOUTH – YOUTH FOR YOUTH

And we invite young people to join the Global Permayouth Festivals each month which Cate is joining in April – hooray!

LEARNING TO GROW A GARDEN?

If your main interest is getting a thriving and abundant food garden set up, then take a look at my online permaculture gardening course: The Incredible Edible Garden.

Much love

Morag

I acknowledge the Traditional Custodians of the land on which I live and work – the Gubbi Gubbi people. And I pay my respects to their elders past present and emerging.

• Podcast Audio: Rhiannon Gamble
• Podcast Music: Kim Kirkman

The post Permaculture Publishing with Maddy Harland and Morag Gamble appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

Lammas is an off-grid permaculture village with a community of 50 adults and many children, with interesting natural homes and is the first One Planet Development Ecovillage in the UK. Lammas was featured on Kevin McLeod’s Grand Designs. Tao tells me how it is possible to buy land and build a home like his for around 20,000 UK Pounds. That’s incredible! There is a lot of potential for young people to create land-based communities like Lammas in the Welsh countryside very affordably. We tour his house – it’s beautiful and hand-crafted from local resources.

Tao and I talk about the ideas behind One Planet Development,  how the village works and why people come there. He helps others make a shift to this way of life through education and consulting and is an expert in One Planet Development.

Tao is the author of ‘Birth of an Ecovillage’ and presented an internet TV series ‘Living in the Future’. His background is in architecture and carpentry, and he’s lived in a wide range of alternative communities, and dwelled in tipis, yurts and roundhouses. I recorded this conversation pre-covid when I was in Wales last year, and will release the extended version with tours of the landscape and common spaces soon.

Or click here to listen to the Podcast on your chosen streaming service. 

Read the full transcript here.

Morag Gamble: 
Welcome to the Sense-making in a Changing World Podcast, where we explore the kind of thinking we need to navigate a positive way forward. I’m your host Morag Gamble.. Permaculture Educator, and Global Ambassador, Filmmaker, Eco villager, Food Forester, Mother, Practivist and all-around lover of thinking, communicating and acting regeneratively. For a long time it’s been clear to me that to shift trajectory to a thriving one planet way of life we first need to shift our thinking, the way we perceive ourselves in relation to nature, self, and community is the core. So this is true now more than ever. And even the way change is changing, is changing. Unprecedented changes are happening all around us at a rapid pace. So how do we make sense of this? To know which way to turn, to know what action to focus on? So our efforts are worthwhile and nourishing and are working towards resilience, regeneration, and reconnection.

Morag Gamble: 

What better way to make sense than to join together with others in open generative conversation. In this podcast, I’ll share conversations with my friends and colleagues, people who inspire and challenge me in their ways of thinking, connecting and acting. These wonderful people are thinkers, doers, activists, scholars, writers, leaders, farmers, educators, people whose work informs permaculture and spark the imagination of what a post-COVID, climate-resilient, socially just future could look like. Their ideas and projects help us to make sense in this changing world to compost and digest the ideas and to nurture the fertile ground for new ideas, connections and actions. Together we’ll open up conversations in the world of permaculture design, regenerative thinking community action, earth repair, eco-literacy, and much more. I can’t wait to share these conversations with you.

Morag Gamble: 

Over the last three decades of personally making sense of the multiple crises we face I always returned to the practical and positive world of permaculture with its ethics of earth care, people care and fair share. I’ve seen firsthand how adaptable and responsive it can be in all contexts from urban to rural, from refugee camps to suburbs. It helps people make sense of what’s happening around them and to learn accessible design tools, to shape their habitat positively and to contribute to cultural and ecological regeneration. This is why I’ve created the Permaculture Educators Program to help thousands of people to become permaculture teachers everywhere through an interactive online dual certificate of permaculture design and teaching. We sponsor global Permayouth programs, women’s self help groups in the global South and teens in refugee camps. So anyway, this podcast is sponsored by the Permaculture Education Institute and our Permaculture Educators Program. If you’d like to find more about permaculture, I’ve created a four-part permaculture video series to explain what permaculture is and also how you can make it your livelihood as well as your way of life. We’d love to invite you to join a wonderfully inspiring, friendly and supportive global learning community. So I welcome you to share each of these conversations, and I’d also like to suggest you create a local conversation circle to explore the ideas shared in each show and discuss together how this makes sense in your local community and environment. I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I meet and speak with you today. The Gubbi Gubbi people and pay my respects to their elders past, present, and emerging.

Morag Gamble: 
Have you ever wondered what it’s like to live off grid? Well, it’s my delight to invite you to join my conversation today on Sense-making in a Changing World with Tao Wimbush. Founder of the Lammas Ecovillage in Pembrokeshire West Wales. This is UK’s first one planet ecovillage featured on Kenneth McCloud’s Grand Designs. Lammas is an off-grid permaculture village with grassroof homes. It’s based on 150 acres of land thereabouts with 50 adults and numerous children. It’s an amazing example of how to live lightly on the planet and also a fabulous place of learning. Tao and I talk about the ideas behind One Plant Development and how this village works, why people come there. He’s the author of Birth of an Ecovillage. And he presented an internet-TV series called Living in the Future. His background is in architecture and carpentry, and he’s lived in a wide range of alternative communities, dwelled in teepees and yurts and round houses. But we also have a chance during this conversation to tour the house that he’s crafted. It’s beautiful for only around 20,000 pounds. He says, you can set up this kind of land-based living with your house and your land in places like West Wales using one planet development. So he helps people do this kind of shift. Transitioning to a land-based way of living through education and consulting. And he’s an expert in one planet development. I recorded this conversation when I was in Wales last year and I’ll release an extended version with tours of the landscape and the common spaces, too, on my YouTube channel at a later date. But in the meantime, I hope you enjoy this introduction to the Lammas Ecovillage and what one planet living is all about.

Morag Gamble: 

Hi, I’m Morag Gamble from Our Permaculture Life and the Permaculture Education Institute. And I apologize, my voice seems to have disappeared somewhere in England, but, I mean, today I’m here at the Lammas Ecovillage with Tao. Tao Wimbush has been here for 10 years at this ecovillage and it’s a pioneering ecovillage in many different ways. So I’m really delighted to be here today with you to hear more about how this place got started and what it is, and also how has been so influential in changing public policy around how ecovillages can conform here in Wales.

Tao Wimbush:
Okay. So, the Lammas Ecovillage started from a grassroots movement putting pressure on local government to create a policy to enable people to move back to the land. And we began with nine families. And in doing that, that was about the same time that we persuaded the government to scale up the One Planet Development policy. So they covered the whole of Wales.

Morag Gamble:
Can you say a little bit about what the One Planet Development Policy is?

Tao Wimbush:

Um, One Planet Development Policy is radical in the UK because it enables people to live in the countryside. The UK planning system is based around the town and country planning. There is a philosophy that says people will live in the towns and the countryside shall be reserved for industrial agriculture. And so what One Planet Development Policy does, is it says, No! No! No it doesn’t have to be that way. There’s a place for people in the countryside. So long as they’re living sustainably, building with natural materials and continuing to be productive, with the land, those are the three principles. So, yeah, so we’re kind of part of that movement. And since the original nine families came here, we’ve been joined by a whole load of peripheral families. And the One Planet Development Policy across Wales is really scaled up. So, you know, there are dozens and dozens of us now.

Morag Gamble:
So it is quite radical [inaudible] I think we could do well with having something like this in Australia as well. Cause we have the same, it’s called the urban footprint beyond that urban footprint that described [inaudible] as well, except for industrial griculture, or if you’re a happened to be a developer and bought up the land 20, 30 years ago, and you might be able to support that suburb but it doesn’t have a sustainability kind of agenda on that type of tone. So this is absolutely brilliant.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it came about, I mean, in the UK came about after the second world war and under a completely different set of parameters at that time, the UK wanted to preserve its agricultural ability here, and that was a time of plentiful and cheap fossil fuels. So it kind of, you know, it made sense. Let’s put the people where we can service them easily. You can pipe the food and the water and pipe out the waste, but it’s a different age now it’s a different age and a different time. And yeah, there’s this kind of concentrating people in towns and cities brings with it a whole load of problems.

Morag Gamble:
And I think also the other side of it is that there isn’t an imagination of what is other to that until something like this, because the other image of what development is sprawl and you don’t want that. So we stop and so the imagination to think of something completely different that can fit in maintaining the beautiful natural landscape, enhancing it actually creating more for a space, creating more productive space and creating greater levels of wellbeing. It makes sense in all those ways.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. And here in Wales, it particularly excels in these Upland areas. We’ve got a lot of Upland. I mean, here we’re 180 meters above sea level, land that would be traditionally used only for grazing for sheep, which is as, you know, very inefficient way of growing food. Um, and it’s not very suited to large machines. And so we come in, we bring in permaculture design and we can rearrange them as, so that instead of being one part of the farmers income, lamb being the cash crop, um, we purchased a whole range of stuff.

Morag Gamble:
So let’s just tease that out a bit. So you’re talking about the permaculture design, so is permaculture underpinning this village? Do you see it as a permaculture village?

Tao Wimbush:
I do see it as a permaculture village. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my approach to permaculture is kind of not so rational..in a way. My training as such was at Tipi Valley. So I come from a roots perspective and a kind of practical perspective about the human relationship with the land base and with each other and with the world around us.

Morag Gamble:
And you know what you’ve got.. So what you’ve got here then is how many people and how many house lots and how much land are we working with?

Tao Wimbush:
We, uh, we are now about 120, 150 acres now, approximately 15 households, uh, probably 50 adults plus the kids. Yeah. I don’t like to be too firm about red lines yet. Cause it’s interesting, in many ways we’ve kind of, we are merging with local communities there are people who come and rent houses locally so they can come to the community.

Morag Gamble:
That’s fantastic. So in terms of any kind of overall agreements about what you do together that defines.. Then what defines your community? What would you think are some of the, maybe it’s about the way you work together or is it about the kind of way that you livein the land or..

Tao Wimbush:
I would say what defines our community is that pioneering spirit, that desire to explore what it is to live in harmony with the natural world and have space to do that and the freedom to do that so that it can manifest in different ways.

Morag Gamble:
Yep. So it’s a little bit like we were talking earlier about, it’s not that dropping out, it’s actually dropping right in to explore different things and to actually say emerge a new story about what it means to live well.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. And it’s interesting you say that. I mean, I’ve been quite privileged. I’ve lived in alternative communities a long time and I’ve seen a lot of families drop out and then drop in and that, and that is a kind of process itself takes people time cause you kind of like kind of rewire…and re-educate yourself and create a space so that you can tune in and drop in. Yeah.

Morag Gamble:
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I’m glad you said that because it’s kind of, it’s not an, either [inaudible] isn’t it?

Tao Wimbush: 
It is. People are motivated by different things. Some people move to this lifestyle to drop out and some people move to this lifestyle to drop in to something. Yeah. But that, that process, I think, is a process that needs kind of respecting and honoring and recognizing that something that, you know, take some quite a lot of time, many years for most people. And I think and is it kind of is a thing in itself it’s a rewire.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah. It’s true. It’s true. So, on a very sort of practical level, how do you make decisions together? Do you, or are you more independent in your own lots? Like what sort of level of community decision-making or interaction or economy, some places you’ve lived have been more communal, others sort of more independent. Where do you sit here in Lammas? How does that work?

Tao Wimbush:
I think on different levels, it works in different ways. In essence, we are fairly close to the conventional model of you have your lot, your territory, and within that territory or autonomous and the degree to which you interact with your community and the way in which you interact with your community is up to you. You know, that there are formal structures that you can get involved with. And there are informal arrangements, which you can get involved with and people can, can define that interaction in their own way. Some people approach it from a free economy perspective. Some people have quite formal, trade exchanges. Some of the management is quite formalized. For example, the hydroelectric system needs quite structured management, whereas other things are much more intuitive and fluid. For example, there’s the celebration and the music and the cultural expression.

Morag Gamble:
So there’s two things, it just popped out of me. Two things I wanted to pick up on. One is the hydro electric. And one was a question about the commons here. So maybe let’s start with the hydro electric in a practical sense. You have a shared hydroelectric system.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. So on the practical sense, some of us have it. So there is a hydro electric system that serves the original [inaudible]. That’s the kind of micro medium scale hydro. Today it’s running at 15 kilowatts and then that’s shared out amongst the households, but that does go up to 25 kilowatts when there’s a lot of water.

Morag Gamble:
Is that enough for your household needs?

Tao Wimbush:
It is enough because we kind of work backwards. It’s plenty. Yeah. From my perspective, we’ve got washing machine, fridge, freezer, teenagers, laptops, stereos, power tools, etc. and Hydro by its very nature is kind of dependent on the water flows in the landscape. And so most of the supplement that with solar. Okay. So when there’s periods of drought, we’ve got, yeah, we had a drought, seriously.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had some, what’s the sort of, is it drought? Something that people even, I thought there’d be a word for drought in Welsh. Maybe there’s none.

Tao Wimbush:
I’m not sure there is in Welsh. No, no. We had 10 weeks of hot dry weather, which for Wales, it’s absolutely…

Morag Gamble:
It’s common for us, but not here. Cause I hear that you kinda get.. I’ve been watching little, little rain water butts on the edges of houses thinking what’s the point of that? We’ve got 50,000 litres of water stored off the side of my buildings because we need to build in that resilience in times of drought. It’s hard to see you’re experiencing these here.

Tao Wimbush:
I mean, we approach water management in a slightly different way. I mean we have to design a landscape to be able to cope with [inaudible] them is one of the things we have to be able to cope with a lot of water in a very short span.

Morag Gamble:
What’s your rainfall..

Tao Wimbush:
On average 1.6 meters a year

Tao Wimbush:
That can vary quite a lot. I would say that could go up to 2.4 or drop to 1.2, but you know, there are periods. It’s just like we have to kind of manage for that event. And then we also have to manage for if you’ve got polytunnels and greenhouses and things like that. So it’s a kind of combination of kind of getting it to flow through the landscape quickly and storing it.

Morag Gamble:
So how do you do that? Do you have like little stop gaps where you, when you want a store it, you can actually slow it down and be like, I remember in Ladakh up in Himalayas is they would have like little sections where they would stuck it with all of bits cloths and mud and actually stopped the water from moving. And then when they want to flow, they would open up and let it flow. Do you have that kind of thing or is it just.

Tao Wimbush:
Here is more ponds.

Morag Gamble:
Okay. Right. Yeah.

Tao Wimbush:
So I’ll show you our rainwater harvesting pond and we capture it in ponds and then we can use those ponds for other things, biomass, harvest crops, etc. And then we position them intelligently in the landscape. So we can then use that.

Morag Gamble:
Direct to food produce. And so what about for your household use? What do you use for water?

Tao Wimbush:
So for drinking water, we share a spring which is up in the valley, which is fantastic. Um, yeah. And that provides our kind of domestic needs. For our livestock needs and for our horticulture needs, that’s all [inaudible].

Morag Gamble:
Okay. Yep. So the last question, maybe we go from a bit of a walk about was about your commons. So you have your individual plots, but are there spaces where you have common building, common land and that sort of thing.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. We’ve got a community centre, we share track ways. We share foot paths networks. We share a village green, we share a bit of woodland.

Morag Gamble:
So how does that work when you buy in, some money goes towards the community infrastructure management development..

Tao Wimbush: 
Kind of. Yeah. Some of that initial money goes towards the commons. With our community centre. We were blessed to get a grant UK government. And so that’s been.

Morag Gamble:
What happens in the community centre?

Tao Wimbush:
All sorts of all sorts of things. We have kind of socials, which can be kind of socials, music events, there’s a choir, a regular choir there. There’s a Christian group that kind of meets, there’s meetings. It’s also a venue for courses, craft, one planet living. Or we do family camps. There’s a kitchen in there so we can value add to our produce. And then there’s also a little, whole food shop. So whole range of things?

Morag Gamble:
How does that work? I would love to, I would love Crystal Waters to have a shop open all the time. Even with 250 people, it doesn’t seem like there’s enough to keep it going to have someone in the shop all the time.

Tao Wimbush:
Nobody mans it. Self service.

Morag Gamble:
It’s brilliant. Yeah. You go, this is what you’re buying. And then you write down in the book, the money you put in..

Morag Gamble:
It’s just the whole foods, bulk foods ordering together, putting what you want. I want your idea. Right. I’m going to tell one of those when I get home. It’s good. Very easy. Excellent. All right. Well thank you that I think maybe we might sort of, if it’s possible just to go for a wander through and see what that has is in the commons and the various particularly also the food systems that you’ve got growing.

Tao Wimbush:
Sure. Great!

Morag Gamble:
Thank you. Cool. So we’re now inside Tao and Hoppi’s house. And this is obviously natural building. Tell us about what’s going, It’s a beautiful house.

Tao Wimbush:
Oh very simple construction, stud wall construction, sheep’s wool installation. We built, it cost us 14,000 pounds to build. It’s got three bedrooms. So yeah, it really works for us so very, very simple.

Morag Gamble:
So let’s go back to the price of things, because this is something that’s a really big issue for a lot of young people around the world. About just housing affordability, homelessness for young people, it’s just going through the roof and even homelessness in Australia. I mean the women over 55 growing little homelessness because of the lack of affordable housing. So you’re saying this is 14,000 pounds to build this really beautiful home. And it’s not a small home it’s lovely.

Morag Gamble:
It’s 90 square meters.

Tao Wimbush:
And then also that the price of the land for that, you were saying is how much..

Tao Wimbush:
I would say averaging between 6 and 7,000 pounds an acre of land.

Morag Gamble: 
So your house and your land in Upland Wales, you’re looking at about 20,000 pounds.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. I mean, generally if someone’s going to do a one planet development, then I would, I encourage people to have 30,000 pounds behind them to start bearing in mind you need to buy really three acres minimum.

Morag Gamble:
For the agriculture.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. In order to have enough land so that you can be productive, have a bit of income from it, grow some fuel, etc. And then bearing in mind, you can borrow on top of that here you can borrow against land. We’ve spent 75,000 on a seven acre plot over 10 years. Putting in all the infrastructure, which is a lot of money.

Morag Gamble:
It’s a lot of money, but it’s still affordable in concept of, if you think about a standard house and little piece of land in suburban Australia, people are spending four or $500,000.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the average house price of a house in the UK is now something like 230,000 pounds.

Morag Gamble:
About the same as Australia. That’s huge.

Tao Wimbush:
Contextually it’s affordable and it’s still, you need some money behind you.

Morag Gamble:

So the access to land there’s, there’s lots of land that is available. Yeah,

Tao Wimbush:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of land across Wales. More and more becoming available.

Morag Gamble:
I mean, it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because I’ve heard, I mean, looking at different models for how we house ourselves is a really interesting thing. I think it was in Italy or Spain, actually. I can’t remember now the saying that the government was actually paying young people to go and live in and restore village homes on the rural areas as a way to house people restore you know, rural areas and bring back economy and economic vitality into those areas. So there’s so many different ways of doing it. That’s really exciting. I think.

Tao Wimbush: 
Yeah. I mean, under the one planet initiative, you could live in a car van, you could live in, you can have a teepee, you can live in a cabin, you could live in a cop house, you can live underground. You know, it’s kind of like you’ve got that freedom and in a way, that’s the carrot. You can build your dream house so long as you’re living sustainably, being productive and be able to..

Morag Gamble:
Which is really quite interesting because I think, you know, in a lot of other parts, it seems like there’s so many restrictions on what you build and how you live, you know, in terms of the housing stock, it has to be, you know, a certain type of heritage restrictions. Whereas here, you’re saying as long as it’s sustainable..

Tao Wimbush:
I mean you still have to meet the building code, building regulations, so if you’re building a house rather than a caravan or a 10, it’s got to have fire safety features, it’s got to be robust, etc.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah. So what are the, what are the features that you’ve built into this house that you think are really interesting and differently? I mean, I’ve noticed outside, there’s sort of, there’s this sod roof outside talked about, you know, wool installation. Is that a common thing here? Um, cause I noticed that you’ve got lots of more produce.

Tao Wimbush:
I mean, the main thing about this house is that it was built to be quick. We were in a situation, we had young kids, we were living in caravans. We needed to put up very quickly. So simple stud walls, Bush, Bush, Bush, Simple house shape. Yeah. And, you know, get yourself into the loop quickly and effectively. Yeah. Um, so then you can kind of move on to the land and carry on and have some fun.

Morag Gamble:
And where did you get the timber from and all that stuff?

Tao Wimbush:
So most of the timber is either from a local woodland or from our own woodland. Mostly we milled it ourselves. So we get mobile. So mill in ourselves. Yeah. It’s the finish is plaster lath. Like thin strips of wood. Off cuts, thin strips, and then passed over. It’s deliberately built off the ground when we go outside, you’ll see it kind of on so that no matter what, it’s always dry in here.

Morag Gamble:
That’s interesting because we have buildings up off the ground in Queensland because we want the air to come under and cooler buildings. So you’ve got them up to.. So how to keep it warm as well as dry.

Tao Wimbush:
So we’ve got the, there’s a range behind us, which we can cook on. Also we dump some of the electrical excess from the hydro.

Morag Gamble:
Very nice, nice, excellent. Yeah, it’s a beautiful space. And so here is a main room, dining room, kitchen… Upstairs you’ve got.

Tao Wimbush:

One of our bedroom is upstairs and then the bedrooms through there.

Morag Gamble:
Gorgeous! And you grafted, all these archways and..

Tao Wimbush:
You know cheap brown wood. Just used what we can. I mean, this has no commercial value. So..

Morag Gamble: 
Isn’t that..isn’t it amazing something that has no commercial value actually looks like it is so much more beautiful. It’s a shift thinking about resources and the same with, you know, like this beautiful, for me this is a gorgeous archway. It’s probably just, did you pick something you thought, Oh, that’s really nice.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. Just a few round wood features. Just some natural wood.

Morag Gamble:
It kind of makes you feel more comfortable in spaces that have natural form in it. You feel at ease.

Tao Wimbush: 
Maybe we come from the forest. Maybe it’s something deep.

Morag Gamble: 
It’s a beautiful permaculture design here. Thank you so much.

So that’s all for today. Thanks so much for joining us. Head on over to my YouTube channel, the link is below, and then you’ll be able to watch this conversation, but also make sure that you subscribe because that way we notified of all new films that come out and also the release of the extended tour of Lammas Ecovillage where we go into the landscape and the common spaces too. And also you’ll get notified of all the new, interviews and conversations that come out. So thanks again for joining us. Have a great week and I’ll see you next time.

Would you like to teach permaculture?

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Join a global network of [pr]activists addressing the interconnected crises humanity (actually, all life) is facing today.   The Permaculture Educators Program joins people together on 6 continents – from Nambucca to Nepal, Sikkim to Spain, California to Kakuma refugee settlement.

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Each Wednesday I will share more wonderful stories, ideas, inspiration and common sense for living and working regeneratively. Positive permaculture thinking, design and action is so needed in this changing world.

What is permaculture?

Take a look at my free 4 part permaculture series or Our Permaculture Life Youtube and my permaculture blog too. For an introduction to permaculture online course, I recommend The Incredible Edible Garden course. I also offer an online Permaculture Educators Program (Permaculture Design Certificate and Permaculture Teacher Certificate) and involve young people in permaculture through Permayouth (11-17yos). Please kindly support our registered permaculture charity, the Ethos Foundation, supporting refugee youth with free permaculture education, women’s community farms and more.

Thank you.

I acknowledge the Traditional owners of the land from which I am broadcasting, the Gubbi Gubbi people, and pay my respects to their elders past present and emerging.

Thank you Rhiannon Gamble for audio editing.

Thank you to Kim Kirkman (Harp) and Mick Thatcher (Guitar) for donating this piece from their album Spirit Rider.

The post One Planet Living with Tao Wimbush and Morag Gamble at Lammas Ecovillage, Wales appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

Download this list of 10 of Morag’s favourite books.

Morag’s 4 part introduction to permaculture video series.

She shares with us her insights about what permaculture aid and humanitarianism is and how permaculture it helps design integrated and appropriate responses to disasters and crises.

About Kym Bletchynden

Kym’s background is in public health, food security & nutrition. She has worked extensively throughout Australia and internationally in places like Bangladesh, Chad, Pakistan, Vanuatu, DPRK, Mongolia, Japan, South Sudan, Philippines, Pakistan, Myanmar, Laos, Nepal, Cambodia, Fiji, Malaysia, Jordan, Turkey, Syria,  Maldives, PNG, Indonesia, Timor Leste, Sri Lanka, Thailand, DPRK and many more places.

She shares with us her insights about what permaculture aid and humanitarianism is and how permaculture it helps design integrated and appropriate responses to disasters and crises.

Kym is a permaculture teacher and has lectured in international nutrition and public health at the University of Tasmania.  She’s the current President of Permaculture Tasmania, part of the Permaculture Australia core team and inaugural co-coordinator of Permablitz Tasmania. She’s also member of the South East Asia Permaculture for Refugees network and is on the Permafund Committee.

She recently returned from living in Kuala Lumpur for several years working across 38 countries in the Asia Pacific region, including the Cox’s Bazar population movement. She is now based in the West Tamar, Northern Tasmania and since she can’t travel right now, you can find her in the veggie garden, visiting second-hand markets, making cheese and ferments and enjoying a glass of Tassie white with her partner, two dogs and chickens.

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Morag Gamble: Welcome to the Sense-making in a Changing World Podcast, where we explore the kind of thinking we need to navigate a positive way forward. I’m your host Morag Gamble.. Permaculture Educator, and Global Ambassador, Filmmaker, Eco villager, Food Forester, Mother, Practivist and all around lover of thinking, communicating and acting regeneratively. For a long time it’s been clear to me that to shift trajectory to a thriving one planet way of life we first need to shift our thinking, the way we perceive ourselves in relation to nature, self, and community is the core. So this is true now more than ever. And even the way change is changing, is changing. Unprecedented changes are happening all around us at a rapid pace. So how do we make sense of this? To know which way to turn, to know what action to focus on? So our efforts are worthwile and nourishing and are working towards resilience, regeneration, and reconnection. What better way to make sense than to join together with others in open generative conversation..

Morag Gamble: What better way to make sense than to join together with others in open generative conversation. In this podcast, I’ll share conversations with my friends and colleagues, people who inspire and challenge me in their ways of thinking, connecting and acting. These wonderful people thinkers, doers, activists, scholars, writers, leaders, farmers, educators, people whose work informs permaculture and spark the imagination of what a post-COVID, climate-resilient, socially just future could look like. Their ideas and projects help us to make sense in this changing world to compost and digest the ideas and to nurture the fertile ground for new ideas, connections and actions. Together we’ll open up conversations in the world of permaculture design, regenerative thinking community action, earth, repair, eco-literacy, and much more. I can’t wait to share these conversations with you.

Morag Gamble: Over the last three decades of personally making sense of the multiple crises we face I always returned to the practical and positive world of permaculture with its ethics of earth care, people care and fair share. I’ve seen firsthand how adaptable and responsive it can be in all contexts from urban to rural, from refugee camps to suburbs. It helps people make sense of what’s happening around them and to learn accessible design tools, to shape their habitat positively and to contribute to cultural and ecological regeneration. This is why I’ve created the Permaculture Educators Program to help thousands of people to become permaculture teachers everywhere through an interactive online dual certificate of permaculture design and teaching. We sponsor global Permayouth programs, women’s self help groups in the global South and teens in refugee camps. So anyway, this podcast is sponsored by the Permaculture Education Institute and our Permaculture Educators Program. If you’d like to find more about permaculture, I’ve created a four-part permaculture video series to explain what permaculture is and, and also how you can make it, your livelihood as well as your way of life.

Morag Gamble: We’d love to invite you to join our wonderfully inspiring, friendly, and supportive global learning community community. So I welcome you to share each of these conversations, and I’d also like to suggest you create a local conversation circle to explore the ideas shared in each show and discuss together how this makes sense in your local community and environment. I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I meet and speak with you today.. The Gubbi Gubbi people and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging.

Morag Gamble: My guest today on this episode of Sense-making in a Changing World is permaculture humanitarian Kym Blechynden who for two decades has worked in some of the most challenging places on earth. Post-conflict places, disaster stricken, and camps that have been flooded by those fleeing from genocide. What Kim does highlights so clearly the people care and fair share aspects of permaculture, but also why it’s so critical that we care for the earth because the most vulnerable communities suffer first and suffer the most. And like Greta recently tweeted, “Stop saying that we’re in the same boat. We’re in the same storm, but we are not in the same boat.” So Kim plays a really key role in organizations like Permaculture Tasmania as well, Permaculture Australia, and the Permafund. She’s lectured at the university of Tasmania in public health and has worked for over a decade in Red Cross. She’s also a member of the Southeast Asian permaculture for refugees network. And it’s my really great pleasure to welcome her to the show today.

Morag Gamble: Well, thanks so much for joining me today on this show, because the work that you’ve been doing in the world with permaculture is absolutely phenomenal. And it’s something that I would love to learn more about and in thinking about how I wanted to learn from you, I thought I’m sure everyone else would love to hear what it is that you’ve been doing too, because I hear that you’ve been, you’ve been working with places like red cross and UN and all different organizations around the world. Places like Syria, Nepal after the earthquakes and Pakistan, in Bangladesh, Fiji, South Sudan, the places that you’ve been and the things that you’ve seen and the ways in which you’ve been taking your work in public health and permaculture is phenomenal. And so I’d love to hear a little bit about firstly, how did you end up doing that work and what drew you to do permaculture in that way?

Kym Blechynden: So, thanks for having me, first of all, it’s lovely to chat. I’ve been working as a nutritionist and in public health for about 20 years and as a new graduate, I thought, I don’t want to have a 9 to 5 job. I want to be doing lots of different things. And I shifted to central Australia and started working for an Aboriginal controlled organization in malnutrition in remote Aboriginal communities. And it was an incredible experience as a new graduate. So pretty young being able to learn about different cultures, about different food supply, about different challenges that people had in being able to access affordable, appropriate, and healthy foods. And my boss wanted me to be running food demonstrations outside the clinic. So I drive for 10 hours out to a remote community of maybe 300 people. And they want me to be standing at the front, you know, doing little cooking demonstrations and handing out recipe cards. And I was thinking, you know what, I’m pretty sure there’s a better way to do this. And I asked her, why are we doing it this way? And I said, well, this is what we’ve always done. And I went sure, but we’re bringing food in from 10 hours away because it’s too expensive for us as a large organization to purchase. It’s food that’s not available locally. So people can’t access the food that I meant to be teaching them how to cook anyway, is this really going to address the problems that we’re seeing there with food security and food access and the health issues we’ll say with high rates of diabetes, and other things. And she said, well, okay, then what do you think we should do? And I said, well, I’m going to ask the community.

Kym Blechynden: So I drove out there again in my troopy for 10 hours. And we sat down and had a chat with the clinic and with some of the women, because culturally, I only worked with the women said, well, we want to learn more and take our kids up for bush foods and for hunting and the foods that are available here. I said, okay, well, what’s stopping that happening now? The men usually have the car because they’re out hunting. So we had a chat about how that could look and the shopping list ended up looking like me purchasing some little x’s about this big, which I was at, what are we gonna use these for? Um, some, you know, some camp ovens, foil containers of water that we could refill, some crowbars and all these different tools, which I had a pretty hard time trying to justify to my finance department, why I’m buying these as part of a nutrition program. But what ended up happening was that we’d go out with the clinics. So we’d take two cars, we’d go out with the women and the take lots of different children out as well. And that’d be showing the children and reinforcing these really important skills of how to catch a goanna, how to catch food, what foods are edible, which plants aren’t edible, where can find water, and then we’d sit down and eat it together.

Kym Blechynden: That then led to other conversations about, okay, what are the other issues in the community? How can we address those and what are your solutions to these? And it was a really important moment in remembering that the community has a lot of the solutions and answers for the problems that they’re facing and the importance of us coming in as guests, listening to those and helping to facilitate if needed and requested some of those solutions. And, you know, it got to the stage, I’d go out there and stay for a week. And every time I’d turn up, there’d be this growing number of women and children standing there with these crowbars and Xs waiting at the door, like, all right, conga, which means young, white women, time to go hunting. And then we’d take a couple of clinic cars and, you know, that women would all be then getting their blood sugars tested while they’re out there. And they’d have chats about health checks and different things. And it was just really cool. And I think it had a lot better impact than, you know, me handing out recipe cards to people who couldn’t access that food, may not have had the electricity connected that week anyway, they generally may have cooked over the fire on the electric fry pan on it type thing. You know, it was, it was more real and it was community-focused. And I took that work with me when I then worked in other States and territories. So in far North Queensland in Northern WA as well, where again, it was a lot of work on telling people what they should eat, as opposed to addressing the issues of why people were not eating healthy foods in the first place. And it helped a lot with understanding and reinforcing, I guess, with people I was working with saying, well, you know, we need to actually understand the why, what the issue is, and then come up with the solution, not the other way around and make our solution fit the problem.

Kym Blechynden: I then started working internationally and have been doing that for about 15 years in about 40 or 50 different countries around the world, some in conflict zones. So working in Syria for several years in the camps there, which was incredibly tough for the communities there and the conditions and, you know, the conflict still going, as we know now, and a lot of people are still living in other countries and not their country of choice. Working in disease outbreaks where public health and permaculture can play such a main, a key role, you know, cholera outbreaks, we’ve got these vaccine and these other preventable diseases, which should not be happening in the 21st century, but still are that people are getting sick from unsafe water and poor sanitation, as well as lack of available healthy foods. And then working in a lot of natural disasters, floods, earthquakes, typhoons, droughts, any natural disaster, which we’re unfortunately seeing an increase number of as well as ferocity as we have a changing climate around the world. But also as we see differences in where people are living, we’ve got more people living in urban areas now in crowded areas, perhaps where, when we have big storms, like in Bangladesh where their lands may be becoming inundated or making areas unsafe. And so I spent a couple of years living in quite a lumper I’m covering 38 countries across Asia and the Pacific for emergency response, nutrition and public health. And then also spent a year living in Nepal as well, which was great, again, working more in the nutrition and public health sphere as well. And now I’m in Tazzy. So not traveling anywhere at the moment due to COVID restrictions, but still doing, international work as well as working for permaculture Australia one day a week, and doing a lot of volunteer work with Permaculture Tasmania and teaching and wearing many hats as do many people as well, like you as well. So that’s me in a nutshell.

Morag Gamble: So that’s an incredible experience that you’ve been having around the world. And I love what you said about starting really in the early days of about responding rather than going in with the idea. I guess that’s a really, a lot about what permaculture is about. So, where in that journey that you just described, did permaculture enter into what you’re doing and how are you seeing it helping both you as a professional, but also the communities that you’re working with?

Kym Blechynden: I mean, I think depending on which components of permaculture you look at, it’s been throughout all of the work or organizations I’ve worked for. So if you’re looking at the ethics of people care, earth care and fair share some of the organizations I’ve worked with very much embodied those ethics in the way that they work and what they do. And the same for some of the international work that I’ve done, you know, we’ve got 8 agencies and community groups that are looking at water harvesting that are running biodigester trials that are looking at local food production rather than bringing in food from other countries as well. So it may not be called permaculture, but lots of the different strategies or the principles or the ethics under pin a lot of the work that’s happening. And I think that’s why when I did do my PDC – permaculture design course, I’ve sort of like, AH! this is what this stuff’s called. I’m kind of already doing bits of that and being exposed to that. And, Oh, here’s some new ideas and here’s some things that could be done differently. And so it, I think it’s always been there, but now it’s got a name in my mind, but as I said, it’s a lot of these activities do happen that people don’t call it permaculture. They may call it building resilience in some of the aid agencies or activities that are happening, or, you know, localization where making sure that local communities and local organizations are leading the way and they’re doing the work and the activities. And we’re not bringing in international people and where we’re looking at solar, or we’re looking at fuel efficient stoves, or, you know, these other activities there.

Kym Blechynden: From doing the PDC, I then started getting more engaged with permaculture organization. So I’ve started working with permaculture organizations, so Permaculture Tasmania, doing some volunteer work, and then as their President running different activities there and building community activities, and then got involved with Permaculture Australia as a board director incredible skills and learning. And now as one of their paid staff members as well. And we’re also doing some, some activities with permaculture for refugees, which is an incredible learning opportunity, but also to see the great activities that are happening with organizations in Bangladesh and in the Philippines and Malaysia, which, you know, all these different parts of the jigsaw puzzle are forming, I guess. So that’s giving me more confidence and ideas to then advocate for in my other work with the international organizations to say, Hey, you know, what have you thought about this? And don’t be scared of that P word permaculture. It’s not this, you know, random hippie thing that people have said to me before. What do you mean to that stuff for that? Well, it’s not stuff it’s actually based on ethics and principles there. It’s looking at addressing some of the big issues that we’re facing at the moment. It’s not the only solution, but there are some great activities and ideas there that we can use to improve the work that we’re doing, which ultimately then improves the, the livelihoods and the activities and the community. And that’s what we want.

Morag Gamble: Do you think that somehow you’re talking about, you know, some people are working on a, like a biodigester here, or another technology there, have you found that by using permaculture approach, you’re able to kind of like connect up some of the dots of different projects? I mean, cause I feel like that’s where permaculture comes in. It’s rather than it just being a recipe for some’thing’ it’s actually about how you can kind of redesign the way that all of that happens. And when I was talking to Ro the other day too, about, she was saying the three key things, she feels the value of permaculture education in refugee camps are for example, one is that a lot of people living in refugee camps are there for a long time. And so it’s actually how they can be feeding themselves and creating a good life there now as best they can with what they have. The second one is that they’re not just learning gardening skills, but they’re learning design skills, which means that when, when, and if they get to move somewhere else, they can assess that place and design that they get the chance to go back home. Then they have the new capability to see that place and to redesign it and redesign it maybe better than what it was before. So I think that kind of that design and the systems approach seems to me to be where maybe the sweet spot for permaculture in this thing and like the connective thread that it could bring. Is that your experience with it? How do you feel are people relating to it apart from going the P word..

Kym Blechynden: I totally agree. Because we as humans seem to get trapped into this one size fits all, what’s worked here, we’ll work there, we’ll work here and we’ll just run in and do this straight away. And it reinforces it is a design. We do need to look at the different principles and ethics and see what’s best suited for that climate or that community or the skillset they’re available there, or the resources that are available. And I think that’s where we should be doing that in our work activities anyway, as, as I’d work as, or government workers or whatever, but it’s a good reminder of the different steps to take before committing money, but before also running programs and doing your assessment, that’s basically what it is, but making sure that your solutions are a fit for the community, but also fit for what you’re trying to do as well. To again, it’s about making sure that we’ve gotten the best result for the community members, not for us. And so it may be something that’s out of our comfort. So if it’s going to work there, then that’s what we should be advocating for and making sure that that happens and building on the skills that already exist, any camp or community that you go to, you know, you’re not starting from ground zero. You’ve got people there with incredible knowledge and skills who, you know, working in the camps in Bangladesh.

Kym Blechynden: I remember when those 10,000 people crossing the border one day, these people had been living on limited food and water and escaping conflict for up to three weeks and trying to stay safe and helping the community, and then setting up in a new country. This really overcrowded camp where there wasn’t access to the amount of water needed or food or other things. And you know, this incredible resilience of, okay, we’re starting again, we’re safe. This is what we’re going to do now. And moving forward, I think if I was in that situation, how would I cope? And I don’t think we give enough credit to the community members we work with on just how incredible the journey people have gone on and how they bounce back. And sometimes continually bounce back and still are able to put food on the table for their kids, keep their family safe and continue to try and make a better life for them. And you know, that’s really incredible. And it’s something that we can’t teach if we’re not from that country or haven’t been through that, our role is to help facilitate the solutions that the communities is saying. We think this will work. Yep. Cool. Okay. So how can we make that happen? I see that that’s what our role is, but I see so many people that have a different mindset. They’re there as the saviors or they’re there they’re coming in, this is what we’re going to do. It’s like, have you ever been to this country? Do you know how to grow food here? Oh no. I live in a temperate climate and I’m now working in the tropics. Well, perhaps I don’t say this, but it’s thinking shouldn’t you be listening first and finding out a bit, a bit more. And I think that’s where the permaculture can play a key role also in that it does build on, on localization. And it does make sure that you look at all of those different elements rather than just jumping in head first and saying, this is what we’re going to do because we’ve always done this. Or, you know, no dig gardens, you must have an no dig garden or a herd spiral for it to be permaculture. No, you don’t actually! Look at the context and the environment. So anyway, jumped off my soap box now, sorry!

Morag Gamble: No, thank you for saying that because it is so important. I mean, the key part is about the observation and the listening and the responding and being very locally contextualized. And that’s a lesson that is so obvious when you’re working in places like that, but they remind you when you come back home also how absolutely critical it is here, that, you know, the idea that, you know, permaculture is a herb spiral. You know, often I say to my students, if I see a herb spiral in your design, I’m actually thinking.. because it’s just taking a pattern that seen somewhere in a book, which is a great idea, but it doesn’t necessarily relate to every context and what it is, what you need to be doing is going back into those principles and thinking about how they apply in that particular context. So can you give us some examples maybe of how you’ve seen permaculture practically applied in some of those landscapes, which are beyond most people’s imagination because of the, you know, the lack of space, I’ve seen pictures of some of the places you’ve been to. I’ve been to some places, but not where you’ve been doing, I just, I couldn’t even begin to imagine where you would actually even start with some of those places. So can you maybe share a little bit about how, how you manage in that context with permaculture, but also on a personal level? How do you internalize what you see as an aid worker?

Kym Blechynden: Yeah, I mean, for Bangladesh, that’s definitely the hardest place I’ve worked from being there from the very start, when there was tens of thousands of people crossing and I’ve been there on and off, I think 10 times over the last two years, doing, working with the same organization and doing similar activities. And so it’s been great to see the changes in the communities. Like in the start that was old rice patties and rainforest where elephants used to live, which has now been cleared for close to 1 million people in a very small crowded area. And some of the times I went, it was that, well, you know, there’s landslides, you’re walking up steep inclines like that in knee deep mud, because there’s been all of this land clearing quickly trying to find places for, for people and, you know, setting up toilets and latrines in wrong areas, which then go down into the water supply because, you know, everyone was working so quickly or there was some people that didn’t have the perhaps necessarily skill set of, of designing the where able to supply should go. But then going back over the years, there’s now a lot more greenery. There’s been a focus on re-planting. There’s fish farms. There’s pumpkin vines and, and plants growing over these little, you know, bamboo shelters where people are living. So making stacking functions, making the use of vertical spaces, which also then makes it a bit cooler for people in their houses. If they’ve got greenery, you know, this water catchment happening where possible, then there’s this real focus now on livelihoods and system, local food and people are given cash rather than food rations. So they can go to the markets and buy what’s useful for them, for their family, which you know, is a nice sign of dignity as well. Give people the choice. They know what’s important to their family, but it wasn’t like that in the start. And it was incredibly tough. One, not sitting under tab pole..Now it’s about nine o’clock at night. We still had people arriving. We’re providing first aid and vaccinations and, you know, screening children for malnutrition, if they needed to go and get treatment and rehydration and so forth. And I remember just looking around under this tab pole and just drenched and covered in mud, surrounded by tens of thousands of people thinking what is going on, how is this happening in the 21st or any century for that matter that we have this situation and how are we going to make sure we’ve got resources available for these people that are going to be here for a long time? You know, Syria conflict has been going for six or seven years and I’ve worked when it was first set up on the border of Jordan and Syria. It’s still there now. We’ve got people living in Lebanon and other other countries. So as RO said, and as you mentioned earlier, it’s about looking at long term activities. And when we’re setting up camps, if we have the time, which we didn’t for bazaar due to the rapid influx, designing these aspects in there for safe water, for safe sanitation, for food growing areas. So there is space for people to safely grow food that’s not contaminated, or that for women don’t need to go outside of the camp where it may or may not be safe for them to go to the fields or perhaps it’s landmines or other things to consider.

Kym Blechynden: But then working in places like Laos, where I was working with the ethnic minority groups in Southern Laos on a project. All of these factors had been considered for food supply and the program wasn’t looking at, you know, go down to the markets, which is two hours drive away and it’ll cost you this much money to get a tuktuk to get there. It was actually looking at the local foods available and how to prepare them and how to preserve them and food preservation techniques and these other really cool things that are looking at the food supply there. And that was great watching that activities. And that was funded by a major UN organization that was doing that work rather than bringing in this continuous food rations. It was creating some more independence, but also focusing on people’s cultural beliefs and I guess, traditions and acknowledging and supporting those rather than wiping them out sometimes with bringing in food from another country. So there’s heaps of great stuff that, that you see, the things that could be tweaked. Nothing’s perfect, but it’s a continuous making sure that you’re a strong advocate for your community members or your staff and your team members. If they’re saying, look, we don’t like this, or we think this could be done better, then you can take that role and be that voice where people may not feel comfortable to be able to do that in dealing with the donors who may have very strict ideas of this is what we want you to do. And you’re going back to them and saying, that’s great, but perhaps we could tweak it a bit and do this. What do you think about that? And this is why, and you be that strong voice and let people on the ground get on and do the job that they do so well there as well. So that’s where I see the role of where I’ve seen the greatest, I guess, benefit and the greatest outcomes in really cool stuff happening, which is just such a privilege to be involved with and learn from each time.

Morag Gamble: Yes. But you’re right though, you know, like this issue of displaced people, refugees is growing from conflict and from climate and environmental degradation, you know, just land being no longer suitable for people. And I worry at the moment too..and I’d love to get your input on this. I’ve been having people reaching out to me in the work that I’m doing, saying, you know, our food rations have gone down. People in these camps, the ones that I’m talking about, the ones in Uganda and Kenya in particular, but like we’re going around and checking on these families and people are starving and there’s less food aid getting to these communities. There’s not enough gardens that are already set up there. The prices of the local food is starting to spike. And so there’s this domino effect that is rippling out for these camps, which is, and then with all the lockdown as well, because they’re all being locked down into their little, can’t go further than a certain space and devastation in some communities is possible through this. And it worries me a lot. The news is not actually getting out about that this is happening in the world. I’m not seeing that reaching out. And so one of the things that I’ve been doing in the capacity that I can is really trying to support those people, reaching out to access them to, as I need to start the community gardens, kitchen gardens. I mean, so it’s kind of just like the one thing that they wanted. They have been asking for help to get their own little kitchen garden around their homes and around their little community center or school happening so food first rapidly growing things. So just, you know, getting seeds, getting tools, getting, you know, watering equipment so that they can do that. And then get to a stage where they can show other people and then they can keep rippling it out as being kind of teachers from that point. So they’re asking actually for support, for creating like a little permaculture school in one of the communities I’m working with, which is with teenagers and the teenagers are wanting to go through and get there to be qualified as permaculture. So then they see in the future that they can be either designers or better farmers or make it a livelihood from this. So, have you seen this trend of, there being less food available in camps and what is the, what’s the number that you’ve heard of lately of the number of displaced peoples around the world?

Kym Blechynden: That number… I’ve heard many numbers for that. Um, that varies, I think, depending on what source. But it’s too high, it’s too high. We’ll stick with that. The number is absolutely increasing with the number that are displaced internally, as well as those that are refugees. Those that are crossing borders as well. And, you know, the, the changing climate is going to see that increase. It’s not just conflict. That’s leading for people to move, to find safety somewhere else. Now we’ve got rising sea levels in parts of the Pacific. We’re seeing people moving to, to other islands, which they can no longer grow food or home.. Their housesnow no longer there, because the water has risen to where it used to be. We’re we’re seeing people moving due to land use changes. So a number of countries, which I won’t name that I’ve worked in, people have been forcibly removed either due to new projects that are creating money for other people, whether that’s mining, whether that’s large dams or areas to be able to produce hydro, whether it’s people now using the land for cash crops. So for biofuels or for rubber plantations or date plantations. So people are being forcibly removed as well as I’ve got other people who are moving for climate or conflict races as well. And so we’re seeing this. It’s getting more and more complex, basically why people are moving and while we’re getting an increasing number, but it’s also making the solutions really tough as well.

Kym Blechynden: We’ve got a lot of people stuck in really dire conditions. Then, you know, before COVID, we had challenges with people being able to access safe places to live and set up a new life. Before COVID, we already had people that were struggling to find somewhere safe to live and set up a new life for their family. And that’s only going to increase when we’ve got people moving to more and more cities. So we’ve got an increased rate of urbanization. We now have climate change diseases that we’re seeing an increasing, you know, we’ve got increased rates of mosquito-borne disease because people are living in closer quarters. There’s more construction rubble, there’s warmer climates where mosquitoes are now thriving more. And we’ve got food supply further away from people because land is having taken by people to live on, or it’s been unindicted by water or other uses. And when we look at all of those factors together, it’s going against what we know will help people access food better by having it closer to home where it doesn’t rely on fossil fuels so much for growing and transport and processing where it helps reduce some of the issues we’re seeing from climate change in the climate crisis at the moment. And that we’ve got this system set up in some places where food security is so incredibly tough for people with the global food system and tariffs and trade regulations and rules, which don’t necessarily help those that probably need the help, the most, the poorer communities who are being squeezed out of the markets or who are producing cash crops rather than food for themselves to be able to eat or not being able to access seeds, that they can seed to continue with their, with their crops. And I think permaculture can, can look at local activities, but it can also advocate for changes in a community and a regional and a global level as well, because unless we dismantle and address some of those systems, which are restricting food security or health of communities, we can have as many kitchen gardens as we want, but we’re still not going to address some of the big picture stuff as well. And so we need that pronged approach with kitchen gardens and not just veggies, but also looking at animals in kitchen gardens. So we get the full nutrition requirements of the eggs or the dairy, or of the larger bean crops, which are so important for nutrition. And then looking at why are we going into the supermarket and buying lemons from America where in Tasmania every… Person has a lemon tree. Why are we not using those lemons in the supermarket or from roadside stalls or bartering? Why are we not looking at local food supply and strengthening that? Why do we not respect farmers more? And look at farming as an incredible occupation which provides food that we need to survive and respecting those farmers and looking at support for local farming and food sovereignty and seed sovereignty and all of that good stuff. But why are we focusing instead on these other, other activities. So I don’t think I answered your question. I talked around in a circle there, but I think it’s important and why can play a role.

Morag Gamble: Yeah. You know, you answered it perfectly. And a lot of the things that you raised there, I think are critical for us to focus on. One is seed sovereignty, because this, I see everywhere is being one of the biggest issues, like say for example, in Kenya, they’re telling me that it’s actually illegal for them to save and sell local seeds. And so, you know, it’s that advocacy level that you mentioned. So it’s all well and good to create the gardens, but there’s this other shift that needs to happen to unlock the potential for the local food movement to flourish. I mean, it’s what they keep saying they want to do. And they see the benefit of it, but they keep getting blocked by these government regulations that are been done in conjunction with the big corporation. So it’s kind of just locked everything down. Um, but there are seed saving organizations that are.. it seems to be challenging for them to access them. And also, you know, a lot of education around because…. It’s such a fast, I’ve seen people grow things like I need to grow things really fast because I have this family that’s hungry. And so the plant and you eat everything that you’ve planted rather than saving the ones for next year. So it’s that kind of being able to stretch into that longer term thinking or in, you know, starting with the very fast then moving to the perennials and the tree crops and the animals, but that takes that longer term thinking of, well, I’m just here in a refugee camp for short time, or am I actually going to be here for long? You know, this is the long haul, but..So seed sovereignty is one thing. And actually really looking at what kind of seeds are available to people to even get started. I mean, giving, you know, seed for them to start, they can’t be saved to the next year is, is also so problematic. Then you mentioned food sovereignty and that was a term that I think is a really important one. It’s not just about food security and having enough calories is that it’s actually about, as you were saying several times throughout our conversation so far about, you know, what is appropriate food? What is the food, what is the food system that enables people in that situation to be able to make the choices and the decisions and to actually meet their families and their cultural needs appropriately and with dignity and that, that kind of food sovereignty concept is something that I think permaculture also does bring in really nicely into things. So with this multipronged approach and we thinking big and thinking local simultaneously, what can the international permaculture community be doing more to help people who are in the global South who are really suffering?

Kym Blechynden: Look, I think it’s a really great question. And, you know, thinking we have these global systems and it can be, you can look at them and go, well, how much are you going to make a difference there? They’re so ingrained. It’s such a big problem of how we can address food security or access to water or access to land for people around the world. But it’s about starting with what we can do. And, you know, we do have powerful voices that we can use for advocacy, not just within our own networks, but for you, for example, with the tens of thousands of people, you are reaching with your YouTube, with your other activities that you’re doing with teaching, when we’re teaching people, it’s about reminding them of how we can make a difference and obtaining yield from the work that we’re we’re doing. And, you know, look at some of the permaculture principles in how we work, know that we do need to address some of this big stuff, but also do some of the local and community stuff as well. So you can actually see that you’re making work with organizations that are based there, you know, working with a number of the organizations I work with. The stuff from that community and that country there on the ground. And there may be me or one other person that pops in and out to work with them. But, you know, you’ve got that long term knowledge that longterm understanding of people living and working in that country and community build with the communities and the organizations that are there and that are asking for help and help them continue to come up with the solutions with what they’re trying to do with working in the camps and other settings. There’s a lot of international and national on civil society organizations they’re.. Infiltrate some of them and say, Oh, you know, you know, what you’re doing is actually permaculture. Can I, can we work together on some training or some activities there and really value added, you know, donors are looking for this these days, we have these sustainable development goals, for example, which donors and agencies and organizations are meant to be, and government submit to be looking towards with the work they’re doing. And, you know, one of them is climate change. One of them is sustainable food production. One of them is looking at these local activities. We can use that to our advantage as can the organizations to leverage funding, which unfortunately funding is needed for some of these activities, but also it gives access to the communities to be able to help them with the solutions they’re coming up with to make sure that there is local food activities happening, that people have access to water, to sanitation, to these basic fundamental human rights, which it makes such a huge difference to people’s lives.

Kym Blechynden: So looking at where we can obtain a yield and working with what exists and how we can infiltrate and value add that with the different policies that we can use to our advantage, like the SDGs, they’re not perfect, but they’re there. And we can use them for leverage. At a more national level, join your local perma organization or other group get involved. Whether it’s PA, whether it’s your state or territory organization, there’s a local seed savers group, a local community garden, whatever it is, get involved with something, get involved with more than something and learn from those activities you’re doing as well as contribute as well. So it’s that two-way learning and activities, because there’s so much we can do, and we can get bogged down with what we can’t do, that we may sit there for so long to say, Oh, it’s too frustrating. It’s too much, what are we going to do? Or I must go off and do another course, or I’ll learn some more, you’ve got skills and knowledge already use that. Use what you’ve got. Join up with other people who have got other skills and join up and become a force, become that snowball that keeps growing and growing to be able to address some of these issues, because we don’t have a lot of time. We know that things are getting worse and funding is going to get harder to access for international work anyway, with COVID. But with the economic ramifications that are happening from that, you know, aid budgets are going to decrease and we need to get more creative and savvy in how we continue to do these lifesaving activities with people and improve the lives for hundreds of millions of people around the world. Box again, sorry!

Morag Gamble: Absolutely! What you’re saying and what I’m, what I’m hearing, is an absolute passion and a deep understanding of how the change can happen. And that through your experience in all these different places that permaculuture is something that can make a difference in these places. And I think that’s something that needs to be heard. So that it gives people a sense of confidence and to advocate for it. Because, you know, sometimes there’s been a question like, Oh, is it actually what is needed in those places? And I think what you’re saying is yes, absolutely contextualize, localize, driven by local communities. It does provide a platform, then they can actually make a huge difference. And it’s something that has this kind of a global connection, which means that you can also then talk to larger organizations. And so my, I loved what you said about just start doing it wherever you are, whatever skills you have, contribute them, whatever skills you have share them and teach other people. You don’t have to be an expert to start teaching whatever, you know, and whatever you can do in your local community. And it’s a way to build up your capacity, your confidence, your skills. And so then at some point, if there’s a way to actually reach out and help other people, then you have a skill base. You’re not going in fresh to do that. So if someone did actually want to do something like what you’re doing, doing permaculture work, professionally, helping people in other parts of the world, what would you recommend that they would do to be able to enter into that path? And I know it’s not one little answer, and I know it’s a lifetime of experience and it’s all of those answers as well. But is there anything particular that you’d.. you would say to them.

Kym Blechynden: I mean, I think it’s about doing your research about where your skills may or may not be needed because it is acknowledging that there is capacity that exists in lots of places already. And that’s great. We want to build on that and use that local skills, but start from home first, there’s so much we can be doing here. How many people were caught out with the COVID-19 pandemic of not being prepared? You know, we had the great toilet paper buyouts of 2020, and then the veggie seedlings and then the seeds and, you know, the activities we can do from here, from home in seed saving, in local food supply, building skills and knowledge starting from disasters, with bushfires, with pandemics, with floods, with whatever may be coming in the future as well. Look at what we can do locally here as well. If you see a gap overseas, and there’s an organization that asks for help, then by all means, see how you can do that together. But I’ve seen a lot of people who, who are so keen to help and that’s, you know, that’s the nature of our human nature. We wanted to help and do things, but make sure that help is wanted and also that the skills match up as well. And perhaps the best way you can help is be a voice from your land or wherever you’re based to advocate for funding for those people and help get that funding over there rather than you jumping on a plane when COVID-19 restrictions lift and flying over there and helping. So I guess it’s about looking at permaculture and doing that assessment again, where will you have time? Where will the greatest yield be obtained and where can you help the most? But don’t forget that there’s a huge amount of work that can happen here in Australia with having our communities. So not our individuals, but our communities being resilient to be able to respond. And then if requests come from overseas, by all means work together with local groups and help value them and help with how they’re asking you to help and help that way rather than going and saying, well, this is what we could do. It’s like, okay, what would you like to do? And how can I help best and matching it that way? If that makes sense. Cause there’s heaps of opportunities out there. It’s not saying don’t go overseas. It’s about look at where the best yield comes from and where the skills are required, where you can value add the best as well.

Morag Gamble: And just, you’ve mentioned bushfires there. And I know that there was the droughts, then there was a bushfires and then COVID hit. It almost feels like there’s this whole waves of community that have just been almost forgotten. And you were involved. I know in doing an assessment, is that Kangaroo Island?

Kym Blechynden: Yeah, it was.

Morag Gamble: Can you just share just a little bit of your experience? I know we’re sort of getting to the end of our time and have many questions. I’d like to find out more about that, your experience there, how that, how the bushfires impacts those communities and maybe how you’ve seen possibly a permaculture type approach can help rebuild.

Kym Blechynden: Yeah, I mean, working in kangaroo Island, I was there a couple of, probably a month or so after the bushfires supporting some of the grants programs and assessments and the scale of damage was immense half of the Island impacted, you know, tourism largely shut down because a lot of the national parks were closed due to safety, but also because the fire had gone through there and people’s livelihoods disappeared overnight, basically. Plus the, you know, the rebuilding of when you’ve got houses you have to wait for people to be able to come in and safely remove that and then transport it off an Island that added element of it, an Island context. And, you know, there was some great activities that were happening afterwards. So there’s a number of permaculture-focused people that were doing activities in the national parks, helping with the rebuilding infrastructure and looking at some of the disease reduction of, you know, spreading and other things in there. But ialso community gardens were springing up with, I think Sophie Thomson from Gardening Australia went over and did some activities and looking more at, okay, if this happens again, what do we have in place to be able to look at our food supply? Cause we’re on an Island, are we growing local foods? Have we got access to water to be able to defend? What designing for disaster aspects do we have in play? And some I spoke to lost not only all their fences, which is pretty important when you’ve got animals, but lost all of their livestock as well and you see these big mounds, which is where that actually just buried their livestock, that perished. And then other farmers had said, well, we kept some of our paddocks just have green grass. We didn’t graze on it. And we kept that there as a buffer. So when the fires came through, they moved their livestock there and the fire didn’t burn that area. And it saved a lot of their livestock. They had sprinklers set up, they had buffers set up, they had all these other things that they’d thought off to minimize the impact, which unfortunately, some of the people who didn’t have, or they lived closer to the plantations and, you know, the just whipped through so quickly, um, there with the heat and the fuel.

Morag Gamble: I think what you’re saying is really in many ways that permaculture seems to be an under underpinning way of thinking a way of design that, you know, we need everywhere and, you know, it’s something that we need to be able to, to share in so many different places. And one of the current projects that I’m trying to find out information about is there, is there a set of materials that’s available for young people in particular, you know, teenagers to be able to teach permaculture in refugee camps. So the teachers there and have these kids, do you know of anything that’s available, but because I know that people go in and they teach it and then they teach it and it keeps going word of mouth, but we can’t get there right now. And so I’m just wondering what, what exists that’s usable for working with the local teachers that they can then use that as materials to teach other people.

Kym Blechynden: Yeah. I mean, it sounds fantastic and I wish it did exist. I don’t know of anything, but if I do find anything, I’ll suddenly.. Connection could be such tricky if people are doing zoom or, or online teaching, there’s not always internet connection to be able to do though. So it’s going back to the flip chart paper and the hands on resources and sketching in the, in the dirt, in the outdoor classrooms, which you often need to be there or train someone beforehand that they do that, of course, but it sounds very exciting.

Morag Gamble: We’ll see. I hope. Fingers crossed. I’m looking for some resources, maybe, you know, maybe a few of us could kind of put our heads together to work out what might be the best, most appropriate, simple set that can kind of be the catalyst for this. Cause who knows how long it’s going to be before we can actually get back to various places.

Kym Blechynden: Exactly. That sounds really cool.

Morag Gamble: Thank you so much for your time today, Kym. It’s been an absolute pleasure and an honor to meet you I mean the work that you’re doing in the world. I mean, thank you, thank you for everything that you do. And also thank you for being at the helm of Permaculture Australia and the local permaculture Tasmania stepping up and being a kind of a local leader in that because you know. It takes time and takes effort, but it’s so rewarding. And I encourage other people to, to step up and speak up in your local communities. You know, if there’s a local group, join it, put your hand up, don’t sit on your hands. Um, you know, if there’s not a local group, maybe think about starting with one up. Well, thank you so very much, Kym, it’s been an absolute pleasure chatting today and I’m sure..I’m definite, there’s so much that is absolute gold that people can learn and take away from this conversation.

Kym Blechynden: No worries. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for your support to PA as well. It’s greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the great work you’re doing as well. It’s amazing.

Morag Gamble: Thanks, Kym. Thanks for tuning in to the sense- making in a changing world podcast today, it’s been a real pleasure to have your company. I invite you to subscribe and receive notification of each new weekly episode with more wonderful stories, ideas, inspiration, and common sense for living and working regenerative and core positive permaculture thinking of design interaction in this changing world. I’m including a transcript below and a link also to my four-part permaculture series, really looking at what is permaculture and how to make it your livelihood too. So, join me again in the next episode where we talk with another fascinating guest, I look forward to seeing you there.

Would you like to teach permaculture?

Permaculture education reaches across the globe connecting communities, ideas, and resources, and builds hope and possibility. Becoming a permaculture teacher is a positive way to make a difference – as a volunteer or as your job – and support communities around you (or on the other side of the world), and connect with and regenerate your local environment.

Join a global network of [pr]activists addressing the interconnected crises humanity (actually, all life) is facing today.   The Permaculture Educators Program joins people together on 6 continents – from Nambucca to Nepal, Sikkim to Spain, California to Kakuma refugee settlement.

Join Permaculture Australia too!

Subscribe & Share

Thanks for tuning into Sense-making in a Changing World today. It has been a pleasure to have your company. I invite you to subscribe (via your favourite podcast app like iTunes) and receive notification of each new weekly episode.

Each Wednesday I will share more wonderful stories, ideas, inspiration and common sense for living and working regeneratively. Positive permaculture thinking, design and action is so needed in this changing world.

What is permaculture?

Take a look at my free 4 part permaculture series or Our Permaculture Life Youtube and my permaculture blog too. For an introduction to permaculture online course, I recommend The Incredible Edible Garden course. I also offer an online Permaculture Educators Program (Permaculture Design Certificate and Permaculture Teacher Certificate) and involve young people in permaculture through Permayouth (11-16yos).

Warm regards,
Morag Gamble
Founder, Permaculture Education Institute

I acknowledge the Traditional owners of the land from which I am broadcasting, the Gubbi Gubbi people, and pay my respects to their elders past present and emerging.

Thank you Rhiannon Gamble for audio editing – a challenging task this week with poor connection

Thank you to Kim Kirkman (Harp) and Mick Thatcher (Guitar) for donating this piece from their album Spirit Rider.

The post Permaculture Humanitarianism with Kym Blechynden appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

I recently came across this wonderful Lampeter Seed Library in Lampeter Wales, connected to Lampeter Permaculture and Transition Lampeter. I immediately wanted to share their fabulous story to help ripple this positive initiative to other communities. I really believe in what they are doing and in the vital importance of saving and sharing good quality organic non-hybrid seed.

This is such a fabulous community initiative that ensures people have access to good quality organic non-hybrid seeds to grow good healthy food that is adapted to the local conditions.

A short film about the Seed Library

In this 10 minute film, learn how it works and why we should all be saving and sharing our seeds.

What is a Seed Library?

A seed library is essentially a local exchange system, just like borrowing a book from a library. You can borrow seeds and when you grow more, you return them to the library so they can continue to be distributed. The idea is that the library grows over time in both volume and diversity – particularly of older open-pollinated local varieties.

A community seed library is in fact a positively radical system in a world where we’ve lost over 80% of the diversity of edible plants in the past 100 years, and where it is illegal to sell seeds you save.

This women-led project seeks to connect their local community, build local resilience, help people grow great food and build up the strength of local varieties for food sovereignty and food security, and to reduce the control that corporate seed giants have over our food system.

Why not start a seed library in your local market, local neighbourhood, community centre or school too?

SOME LINKS

Lampeter Seed Library is an initiative of Lampeter Permaculture (Wales) and they have a seed farm at Denmark Farm – a conservation centre . Lampeter Seed Library is part of the local Transition Town Initiative

Here’s another video the group just made  about their Seed Library

LEARN ABOUT PERMACULTURE WITH MORAG

Permaculture Educators Program

The Incredible Edible Garden Course

Our Permaculture Life Youtube (100+ films)

Our Permaculture Life Blog (400+ articles)

Support permaculture programs for women in the global south through our registered permaculture charity, the Ethos Foundation.

MORE SEEDSAVING INFORMATION

Garden Seed Bank with Morag Gamble

Here’s another couple of films about Seedsaving from Our Permaculture Life Youtube Channel.  Make sure you subscribe to receive notification of all my permaculture related films.

The post How to Start a Community Seed Library – Morag Gamble visits Lampeter Seed Library appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

The famous Ubuntu Choir from Africa visits our permaculture garden

On Saturday we were so absolutely delighted to welcome the amazing young people from the Ubuntu Choir from Uganda to our home and garden for a permaculture tour. This was a group of young people aged 18-20 who had been part of the extraordinary African Children’s Choir since they were 7 or 8 years old. Their involvement in the choir has given them a chance to receive an education and travel the world. The’s singers have sung for the Queen, American Presidents and celebrities like Bono, Annie Lennox, Bob Geldof – and here they are singing in our permaculture garden. They return home tomorrow after 3 months touring in Australia.

Permaculture tour

Evan and the kids showed them through our permaculture garden and home  – the permaculture tour including our toilet and water systems we’ve created here, as well as a walk through the permaculture village.  Our 12 yo daughter introduced them to our animal systems too.  There was so much interest in our composting toilet systems and the zone 1 permaculture gardens surrounding our house. These things, they said, would be so great to apply back in their own homes.

As thanks for the tour, they shared a gorgeous song in our garden that is so beautiful – it lifts my soul each time I hear it – what a gift!

Support the children

Please support the Ubuntu Choir. Check out their website and see what great work they do in supporting Ugandan children and youth. You can sponsor a child for USD50/month to receive an education and be involved in this life-changing program. 100% of funds go to the children.

We went today to listen the their last Australian performance in Maleny on Sunday and hope we may meet them again in Uganda sometime soon.

The Permaculture Education Institute offers support for local permaculture initiatives in Africa

The Permaculture Education Institute offers scholarships to women and young people in countries such as Uganda. Every time someone purchases a Permaculture Education Institute course we donate a sponsored place to someone who has no other means of doing a permaculture design certificate and permaculture teacher certificate. I am also planning to travel with my family to Uganda and Kenya to work with local permaculture teachers and local women’s self-help groups.

*  For many years we’ve talked about sustainability and sustainable development, however our understanding has grown and it’s evident now that it’s not enough to just think about being sustainable. We cannot simply sustain what we have now because so much damage has been done. What we need are regenerative systems – systems that restore environments, habitats, soils, food systems, water systems, social systems, languages, cultural practices …

The post Permaculture Education & the gift economy – a tour for a song! appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

12 things to consider about single use plastic

Here’s a dozen fact to keep in mind when we’re making decisions about what to buy:

1. 6% of the world’s fossil fuels are used to make plastic
2. from 2000-2010 1 billion tonnes of plastic was made – same amount as between 1950-2000
3. half the world’s plastics are used once before going to landfill
4. 8 million tonnes of plastic end up in our oceans every year – that’s like putting five bags of plastic trash on every foot of coastline in the world.
5. Almost 75% of the plastic found in the oceans is single-use (food wrappers, food containers, caps and lids, plastic bags, polystyrene…)
6. 90% of sea birds have eaten plastic, 50% of turtles have too
7. 1 million sea bird and 100,000 turtles die from eating plastic and becoming entangled each year.
8. 5 billion plastic lined coffee cups are used each year
9. 4.7 billion toothbrushes are made each year. They’ll last around 1000 years.
10. each person on the planet uses around 700 plastic bags a year each
11. it takes around 5 litres of water and a litre of oil to make a litre of bottled water
12. In Australia, we use almost 120,000 tonnes of plastic drink bottles each year.

What will it take to dramatically cut down on throw-away plastic?

Simple steps

We can impact change in our sphere of influence, and that is different for us all. Out and about, in our home, at work, at school, in our community …

Source: www.sustainablecoastlines.org

Single use plastic is a massive problem in the world, and while many of us are aware consumers, we still manage to come home with more single-use plastic than we’d hoped because it is just everywhere!

Some simple steps to reduce single-use plastic waste:

1. Grow more food
2. Choose to shop at farmers markets and CSAs (community supported agriculture programs), and bulk food stores.
3. Store leftovers in jars or reusable lidded containers
4. Make more things from scratch and pack food to take out with you.
5. Choose biodegradable options
6. Take our own cups and bottles or slow down and have a cuppa in a ceramic cup.
7. Pick up rubbish we see around.

Plastic free veggies and herbs from my garden – freshly harvested for dinner.

Choose to Refuse

Choose to Refuse is the theme of Plastic Free July.  The idea really is that we use this time to change habits and then continue on with less plastic in our lives. Since signing on last July with my family, there are lots of things I no longer buy such as: plastic wrapped toilet paper, shampoo or conditioner, hand soap, laundry liquid, dishwashing liquid, take away coffee cups, plastic straws, microfibre clothing… and more.

Find out ways to reduce single-use plastic

Follow this LINK to the Plastic Free July website for lots of ideas of ways to change habits and radically alter the amount of unnecessary waste is month, share this with others, and keep going after this monthlong campaign is over.

Sign the challenge

Sign on to accept the challenge to reduce your single use plastic throughout July. Show your support. Pledge your commitment. Make a positive change.

Share your successes

Make being plastic free your new normal. What does that take? I’d love to hear.

Share your challenges

What are your challenges and how are you overcoming those? Please share this too.

Note: *I understand that there are a number of medical and other applications of single use plastics that are important for health and wellbeing. If we focus on releasing our dependence on non-essential single-use plastics we can make a huge difference.

The post Plastic Free July – make single use plastic a thing of the past appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

Permaculture and storytelling

Just ask Mariam Issa. Twenty years ago, a young pregnant Mariam fled Somalia due to the bloody civil war. She had to leave her home, family, community and culture, and head off in a leaky boat to find refuge. Clutching to her four children, she finally arrived here in Australia – but that was just the beginning of the journey.

To make a new life here, Mariam found permaculture and storytelling, sharing meals and gardening together healed her heart and built a rich tapestry of connections with her new community. It helped her move from being a victim to empowerment, from being dependent to interdependent.

Mariam’s goal is to reach 1 million women through storytelling. She believes everyone has a story to tell and that when we share these stories, the genius of everyone comes alive and we can create a resilient and adaptable community.

RAW Garden

Mariam opened her Melbourne backyard as a space for people to meet, grow food together, cook together, share stories, support each other, laugh together, create a safe place for children to play, build inter-cultural bridges, and create. This is the RAW garden in Brighton.

Image Source: Dumbo Feather 2014 when they featured Mariam Issa’s work. Read the full article here

Australasian Permaculture Convergence Keynote

I had met Mariam at the first Urban Agriculture Forum in Melbourne in late 2016 and had been really uplifted by her story and was so delighted to meet her again at the Australasian Permaculture Convergence in Canberra this April. There she spoke to the entire conference one evening about the power of permaculture and storytelling.

In conversation with Mariam

We caught up in the gardens and recorded this conversation. You can watch here:

Mariam’s resilience, optimism and compassion is inspiring. From being a victim of war, she has become a beautifully gentle activist who has found her strength and voice with something so very important to share, and people are listening – everywhere.

A Resilient Life – Mariam’s book

Mariam has written a book about her life experience – A Resilient Life. In it she shares her story from her childhood and coming of age in Africa, her experience as a refugee, and how she found a new life here in Australia. You can order a copy directly through her website

Mariam Issa

Storyteller, author, speaker, community advisor, community gardener, women’s advocate, change agent, mother and mentor.

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Retrosuburbia is about transforming our suburbs, and retrofitting our homes and neighbourhoods to be more vibrant and sustainable.

Why focus on suburbs?

More than half the global population live in cities and most in places like Australia live in suburb so this really is the conversation we need to be having – how to live more simply in the suburbs and how to be resilient in the face of growing uncertainties.

The interview

It was such a delight to chat with David  about Retrosuburbia while we were at the Australasian Permaculture Convergence last week (15-19 April 2018) in Canberra. In this interview (filmed by David’s son, Oliver) we explore why he wrote the book, his vision for cities and where he feels we need to put our energy. Enjoy and share!

About Retrosuburbia

Retrosuburbia is an incredible collection of strategies and case-studies for positive change. It is almost 600 pages and is filled with hundreds of photos by Oliver Holmgren, and around 100 colour illustrations from the very talented permaculture illustrator, Brenna Quinlan.

David and his wonderful team have self-published Retrosuburbia. It is printed in Australia and is not being distributed through the big multi-national online booksellers, so you’ll have to visit www.retrosuburbia.com to get your copy or ask your local independent bookshop. Our copy at home is already very well used!

The post Retrosuburbia by David Holmgren – in conversation with Morag Gamble appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.