For two decades, Natalie has been supporting communities devastated by hurricanes, drought, floods, conflict, and wars. Water is at the core of human resilience whether in humanitarian emergencies, recovery, or long-term development and community planning. In this presentation, Natalie takes us through work she has led in various contexts to support community and household water security – from harvesting greywater to passive water harvesting design at a catchments scale.

ABOUT NATALIE TOPA: Natalie Topa is a regenerative and circular educator and designer who has worked hands-on in Africa, the Middle East, and South East Asia and focused on resilience in forced displacement for almost 20 years. She is the creator of the Sponge Village concept and a hands-on designer and advocate of passive water harvesting, soil building, agro-biodiversity recovery, indigenous food, and seed systems. Natalie is also the founder of Utopa Design and a member of United Designers International.

Click below to watch a recording of the session

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Lammas is an off-grid permaculture village with a community of 50 adults and many children, with interesting natural homes and is the first One Planet Development Ecovillage in the UK. Lammas was featured on Kevin McLeod’s Grand Designs. Tao tells me how it is possible to buy land and build a home like his for around 20,000 UK Pounds. That’s incredible! There is a lot of potential for young people to create land-based communities like Lammas in the Welsh countryside very affordably. We tour his house – it’s beautiful and hand-crafted from local resources.

Tao and I talk about the ideas behind One Planet Development,  how the village works and why people come there. He helps others make a shift to this way of life through education and consulting and is an expert in One Planet Development.

Tao is the author of ‘Birth of an Ecovillage’ and presented an internet TV series ‘Living in the Future’. His background is in architecture and carpentry, and he’s lived in a wide range of alternative communities, and dwelled in tipis, yurts and roundhouses. I recorded this conversation pre-covid when I was in Wales last year, and will release the extended version with tours of the landscape and common spaces soon.

Or click here to listen to the Podcast on your chosen streaming service. 

Read the full transcript here.

Morag Gamble: 
Welcome to the Sense-making in a Changing World Podcast, where we explore the kind of thinking we need to navigate a positive way forward. I’m your host Morag Gamble.. Permaculture Educator, and Global Ambassador, Filmmaker, Eco villager, Food Forester, Mother, Practivist and all-around lover of thinking, communicating and acting regeneratively. For a long time it’s been clear to me that to shift trajectory to a thriving one planet way of life we first need to shift our thinking, the way we perceive ourselves in relation to nature, self, and community is the core. So this is true now more than ever. And even the way change is changing, is changing. Unprecedented changes are happening all around us at a rapid pace. So how do we make sense of this? To know which way to turn, to know what action to focus on? So our efforts are worthwhile and nourishing and are working towards resilience, regeneration, and reconnection.

Morag Gamble: 

What better way to make sense than to join together with others in open generative conversation. In this podcast, I’ll share conversations with my friends and colleagues, people who inspire and challenge me in their ways of thinking, connecting and acting. These wonderful people are thinkers, doers, activists, scholars, writers, leaders, farmers, educators, people whose work informs permaculture and spark the imagination of what a post-COVID, climate-resilient, socially just future could look like. Their ideas and projects help us to make sense in this changing world to compost and digest the ideas and to nurture the fertile ground for new ideas, connections and actions. Together we’ll open up conversations in the world of permaculture design, regenerative thinking community action, earth repair, eco-literacy, and much more. I can’t wait to share these conversations with you.

Morag Gamble: 

Over the last three decades of personally making sense of the multiple crises we face I always returned to the practical and positive world of permaculture with its ethics of earth care, people care and fair share. I’ve seen firsthand how adaptable and responsive it can be in all contexts from urban to rural, from refugee camps to suburbs. It helps people make sense of what’s happening around them and to learn accessible design tools, to shape their habitat positively and to contribute to cultural and ecological regeneration. This is why I’ve created the Permaculture Educators Program to help thousands of people to become permaculture teachers everywhere through an interactive online dual certificate of permaculture design and teaching. We sponsor global Permayouth programs, women’s self help groups in the global South and teens in refugee camps. So anyway, this podcast is sponsored by the Permaculture Education Institute and our Permaculture Educators Program. If you’d like to find more about permaculture, I’ve created a four-part permaculture video series to explain what permaculture is and also how you can make it your livelihood as well as your way of life. We’d love to invite you to join a wonderfully inspiring, friendly and supportive global learning community. So I welcome you to share each of these conversations, and I’d also like to suggest you create a local conversation circle to explore the ideas shared in each show and discuss together how this makes sense in your local community and environment. I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I meet and speak with you today. The Gubbi Gubbi people and pay my respects to their elders past, present, and emerging.

Morag Gamble: 
Have you ever wondered what it’s like to live off grid? Well, it’s my delight to invite you to join my conversation today on Sense-making in a Changing World with Tao Wimbush. Founder of the Lammas Ecovillage in Pembrokeshire West Wales. This is UK’s first one planet ecovillage featured on Kenneth McCloud’s Grand Designs. Lammas is an off-grid permaculture village with grassroof homes. It’s based on 150 acres of land thereabouts with 50 adults and numerous children. It’s an amazing example of how to live lightly on the planet and also a fabulous place of learning. Tao and I talk about the ideas behind One Plant Development and how this village works, why people come there. He’s the author of Birth of an Ecovillage. And he presented an internet-TV series called Living in the Future. His background is in architecture and carpentry, and he’s lived in a wide range of alternative communities, dwelled in teepees and yurts and round houses. But we also have a chance during this conversation to tour the house that he’s crafted. It’s beautiful for only around 20,000 pounds. He says, you can set up this kind of land-based living with your house and your land in places like West Wales using one planet development. So he helps people do this kind of shift. Transitioning to a land-based way of living through education and consulting. And he’s an expert in one planet development. I recorded this conversation when I was in Wales last year and I’ll release an extended version with tours of the landscape and the common spaces, too, on my YouTube channel at a later date. But in the meantime, I hope you enjoy this introduction to the Lammas Ecovillage and what one planet living is all about.

Morag Gamble: 

Hi, I’m Morag Gamble from Our Permaculture Life and the Permaculture Education Institute. And I apologize, my voice seems to have disappeared somewhere in England, but, I mean, today I’m here at the Lammas Ecovillage with Tao. Tao Wimbush has been here for 10 years at this ecovillage and it’s a pioneering ecovillage in many different ways. So I’m really delighted to be here today with you to hear more about how this place got started and what it is, and also how has been so influential in changing public policy around how ecovillages can conform here in Wales.

Tao Wimbush:
Okay. So, the Lammas Ecovillage started from a grassroots movement putting pressure on local government to create a policy to enable people to move back to the land. And we began with nine families. And in doing that, that was about the same time that we persuaded the government to scale up the One Planet Development policy. So they covered the whole of Wales.

Morag Gamble:
Can you say a little bit about what the One Planet Development Policy is?

Tao Wimbush:

Um, One Planet Development Policy is radical in the UK because it enables people to live in the countryside. The UK planning system is based around the town and country planning. There is a philosophy that says people will live in the towns and the countryside shall be reserved for industrial agriculture. And so what One Planet Development Policy does, is it says, No! No! No it doesn’t have to be that way. There’s a place for people in the countryside. So long as they’re living sustainably, building with natural materials and continuing to be productive, with the land, those are the three principles. So, yeah, so we’re kind of part of that movement. And since the original nine families came here, we’ve been joined by a whole load of peripheral families. And the One Planet Development Policy across Wales is really scaled up. So, you know, there are dozens and dozens of us now.

Morag Gamble:
So it is quite radical [inaudible] I think we could do well with having something like this in Australia as well. Cause we have the same, it’s called the urban footprint beyond that urban footprint that described [inaudible] as well, except for industrial griculture, or if you’re a happened to be a developer and bought up the land 20, 30 years ago, and you might be able to support that suburb but it doesn’t have a sustainability kind of agenda on that type of tone. So this is absolutely brilliant.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it came about, I mean, in the UK came about after the second world war and under a completely different set of parameters at that time, the UK wanted to preserve its agricultural ability here, and that was a time of plentiful and cheap fossil fuels. So it kind of, you know, it made sense. Let’s put the people where we can service them easily. You can pipe the food and the water and pipe out the waste, but it’s a different age now it’s a different age and a different time. And yeah, there’s this kind of concentrating people in towns and cities brings with it a whole load of problems.

Morag Gamble:
And I think also the other side of it is that there isn’t an imagination of what is other to that until something like this, because the other image of what development is sprawl and you don’t want that. So we stop and so the imagination to think of something completely different that can fit in maintaining the beautiful natural landscape, enhancing it actually creating more for a space, creating more productive space and creating greater levels of wellbeing. It makes sense in all those ways.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. And here in Wales, it particularly excels in these Upland areas. We’ve got a lot of Upland. I mean, here we’re 180 meters above sea level, land that would be traditionally used only for grazing for sheep, which is as, you know, very inefficient way of growing food. Um, and it’s not very suited to large machines. And so we come in, we bring in permaculture design and we can rearrange them as, so that instead of being one part of the farmers income, lamb being the cash crop, um, we purchased a whole range of stuff.

Morag Gamble:
So let’s just tease that out a bit. So you’re talking about the permaculture design, so is permaculture underpinning this village? Do you see it as a permaculture village?

Tao Wimbush:
I do see it as a permaculture village. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my approach to permaculture is kind of not so rational..in a way. My training as such was at Tipi Valley. So I come from a roots perspective and a kind of practical perspective about the human relationship with the land base and with each other and with the world around us.

Morag Gamble:
And you know what you’ve got.. So what you’ve got here then is how many people and how many house lots and how much land are we working with?

Tao Wimbush:
We, uh, we are now about 120, 150 acres now, approximately 15 households, uh, probably 50 adults plus the kids. Yeah. I don’t like to be too firm about red lines yet. Cause it’s interesting, in many ways we’ve kind of, we are merging with local communities there are people who come and rent houses locally so they can come to the community.

Morag Gamble:
That’s fantastic. So in terms of any kind of overall agreements about what you do together that defines.. Then what defines your community? What would you think are some of the, maybe it’s about the way you work together or is it about the kind of way that you livein the land or..

Tao Wimbush:
I would say what defines our community is that pioneering spirit, that desire to explore what it is to live in harmony with the natural world and have space to do that and the freedom to do that so that it can manifest in different ways.

Morag Gamble:
Yep. So it’s a little bit like we were talking earlier about, it’s not that dropping out, it’s actually dropping right in to explore different things and to actually say emerge a new story about what it means to live well.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. And it’s interesting you say that. I mean, I’ve been quite privileged. I’ve lived in alternative communities a long time and I’ve seen a lot of families drop out and then drop in and that, and that is a kind of process itself takes people time cause you kind of like kind of rewire…and re-educate yourself and create a space so that you can tune in and drop in. Yeah.

Morag Gamble:
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I’m glad you said that because it’s kind of, it’s not an, either [inaudible] isn’t it?

Tao Wimbush: 
It is. People are motivated by different things. Some people move to this lifestyle to drop out and some people move to this lifestyle to drop in to something. Yeah. But that, that process, I think, is a process that needs kind of respecting and honoring and recognizing that something that, you know, take some quite a lot of time, many years for most people. And I think and is it kind of is a thing in itself it’s a rewire.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah. It’s true. It’s true. So, on a very sort of practical level, how do you make decisions together? Do you, or are you more independent in your own lots? Like what sort of level of community decision-making or interaction or economy, some places you’ve lived have been more communal, others sort of more independent. Where do you sit here in Lammas? How does that work?

Tao Wimbush:
I think on different levels, it works in different ways. In essence, we are fairly close to the conventional model of you have your lot, your territory, and within that territory or autonomous and the degree to which you interact with your community and the way in which you interact with your community is up to you. You know, that there are formal structures that you can get involved with. And there are informal arrangements, which you can get involved with and people can, can define that interaction in their own way. Some people approach it from a free economy perspective. Some people have quite formal, trade exchanges. Some of the management is quite formalized. For example, the hydroelectric system needs quite structured management, whereas other things are much more intuitive and fluid. For example, there’s the celebration and the music and the cultural expression.

Morag Gamble:
So there’s two things, it just popped out of me. Two things I wanted to pick up on. One is the hydro electric. And one was a question about the commons here. So maybe let’s start with the hydro electric in a practical sense. You have a shared hydroelectric system.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. So on the practical sense, some of us have it. So there is a hydro electric system that serves the original [inaudible]. That’s the kind of micro medium scale hydro. Today it’s running at 15 kilowatts and then that’s shared out amongst the households, but that does go up to 25 kilowatts when there’s a lot of water.

Morag Gamble:
Is that enough for your household needs?

Tao Wimbush:
It is enough because we kind of work backwards. It’s plenty. Yeah. From my perspective, we’ve got washing machine, fridge, freezer, teenagers, laptops, stereos, power tools, etc. and Hydro by its very nature is kind of dependent on the water flows in the landscape. And so most of the supplement that with solar. Okay. So when there’s periods of drought, we’ve got, yeah, we had a drought, seriously.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had some, what’s the sort of, is it drought? Something that people even, I thought there’d be a word for drought in Welsh. Maybe there’s none.

Tao Wimbush:
I’m not sure there is in Welsh. No, no. We had 10 weeks of hot dry weather, which for Wales, it’s absolutely…

Morag Gamble:
It’s common for us, but not here. Cause I hear that you kinda get.. I’ve been watching little, little rain water butts on the edges of houses thinking what’s the point of that? We’ve got 50,000 litres of water stored off the side of my buildings because we need to build in that resilience in times of drought. It’s hard to see you’re experiencing these here.

Tao Wimbush:
I mean, we approach water management in a slightly different way. I mean we have to design a landscape to be able to cope with [inaudible] them is one of the things we have to be able to cope with a lot of water in a very short span.

Morag Gamble:
What’s your rainfall..

Tao Wimbush:
On average 1.6 meters a year

Tao Wimbush:
That can vary quite a lot. I would say that could go up to 2.4 or drop to 1.2, but you know, there are periods. It’s just like we have to kind of manage for that event. And then we also have to manage for if you’ve got polytunnels and greenhouses and things like that. So it’s a kind of combination of kind of getting it to flow through the landscape quickly and storing it.

Morag Gamble:
So how do you do that? Do you have like little stop gaps where you, when you want a store it, you can actually slow it down and be like, I remember in Ladakh up in Himalayas is they would have like little sections where they would stuck it with all of bits cloths and mud and actually stopped the water from moving. And then when they want to flow, they would open up and let it flow. Do you have that kind of thing or is it just.

Tao Wimbush:
Here is more ponds.

Morag Gamble:
Okay. Right. Yeah.

Tao Wimbush:
So I’ll show you our rainwater harvesting pond and we capture it in ponds and then we can use those ponds for other things, biomass, harvest crops, etc. And then we position them intelligently in the landscape. So we can then use that.

Morag Gamble:
Direct to food produce. And so what about for your household use? What do you use for water?

Tao Wimbush:
So for drinking water, we share a spring which is up in the valley, which is fantastic. Um, yeah. And that provides our kind of domestic needs. For our livestock needs and for our horticulture needs, that’s all [inaudible].

Morag Gamble:
Okay. Yep. So the last question, maybe we go from a bit of a walk about was about your commons. So you have your individual plots, but are there spaces where you have common building, common land and that sort of thing.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. We’ve got a community centre, we share track ways. We share foot paths networks. We share a village green, we share a bit of woodland.

Morag Gamble:
So how does that work when you buy in, some money goes towards the community infrastructure management development..

Tao Wimbush: 
Kind of. Yeah. Some of that initial money goes towards the commons. With our community centre. We were blessed to get a grant UK government. And so that’s been.

Morag Gamble:
What happens in the community centre?

Tao Wimbush:
All sorts of all sorts of things. We have kind of socials, which can be kind of socials, music events, there’s a choir, a regular choir there. There’s a Christian group that kind of meets, there’s meetings. It’s also a venue for courses, craft, one planet living. Or we do family camps. There’s a kitchen in there so we can value add to our produce. And then there’s also a little, whole food shop. So whole range of things?

Morag Gamble:
How does that work? I would love to, I would love Crystal Waters to have a shop open all the time. Even with 250 people, it doesn’t seem like there’s enough to keep it going to have someone in the shop all the time.

Tao Wimbush:
Nobody mans it. Self service.

Morag Gamble:
It’s brilliant. Yeah. You go, this is what you’re buying. And then you write down in the book, the money you put in..

Morag Gamble:
It’s just the whole foods, bulk foods ordering together, putting what you want. I want your idea. Right. I’m going to tell one of those when I get home. It’s good. Very easy. Excellent. All right. Well thank you that I think maybe we might sort of, if it’s possible just to go for a wander through and see what that has is in the commons and the various particularly also the food systems that you’ve got growing.

Tao Wimbush:
Sure. Great!

Morag Gamble:
Thank you. Cool. So we’re now inside Tao and Hoppi’s house. And this is obviously natural building. Tell us about what’s going, It’s a beautiful house.

Tao Wimbush:
Oh very simple construction, stud wall construction, sheep’s wool installation. We built, it cost us 14,000 pounds to build. It’s got three bedrooms. So yeah, it really works for us so very, very simple.

Morag Gamble:
So let’s go back to the price of things, because this is something that’s a really big issue for a lot of young people around the world. About just housing affordability, homelessness for young people, it’s just going through the roof and even homelessness in Australia. I mean the women over 55 growing little homelessness because of the lack of affordable housing. So you’re saying this is 14,000 pounds to build this really beautiful home. And it’s not a small home it’s lovely.

Morag Gamble:
It’s 90 square meters.

Tao Wimbush:
And then also that the price of the land for that, you were saying is how much..

Tao Wimbush:
I would say averaging between 6 and 7,000 pounds an acre of land.

Morag Gamble: 
So your house and your land in Upland Wales, you’re looking at about 20,000 pounds.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. I mean, generally if someone’s going to do a one planet development, then I would, I encourage people to have 30,000 pounds behind them to start bearing in mind you need to buy really three acres minimum.

Morag Gamble:
For the agriculture.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. In order to have enough land so that you can be productive, have a bit of income from it, grow some fuel, etc. And then bearing in mind, you can borrow on top of that here you can borrow against land. We’ve spent 75,000 on a seven acre plot over 10 years. Putting in all the infrastructure, which is a lot of money.

Morag Gamble:
It’s a lot of money, but it’s still affordable in concept of, if you think about a standard house and little piece of land in suburban Australia, people are spending four or $500,000.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the average house price of a house in the UK is now something like 230,000 pounds.

Morag Gamble:
About the same as Australia. That’s huge.

Tao Wimbush:
Contextually it’s affordable and it’s still, you need some money behind you.

Morag Gamble:

So the access to land there’s, there’s lots of land that is available. Yeah,

Tao Wimbush:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of land across Wales. More and more becoming available.

Morag Gamble:
I mean, it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because I’ve heard, I mean, looking at different models for how we house ourselves is a really interesting thing. I think it was in Italy or Spain, actually. I can’t remember now the saying that the government was actually paying young people to go and live in and restore village homes on the rural areas as a way to house people restore you know, rural areas and bring back economy and economic vitality into those areas. So there’s so many different ways of doing it. That’s really exciting. I think.

Tao Wimbush: 
Yeah. I mean, under the one planet initiative, you could live in a car van, you could live in, you can have a teepee, you can live in a cabin, you could live in a cop house, you can live underground. You know, it’s kind of like you’ve got that freedom and in a way, that’s the carrot. You can build your dream house so long as you’re living sustainably, being productive and be able to..

Morag Gamble:
Which is really quite interesting because I think, you know, in a lot of other parts, it seems like there’s so many restrictions on what you build and how you live, you know, in terms of the housing stock, it has to be, you know, a certain type of heritage restrictions. Whereas here, you’re saying as long as it’s sustainable..

Tao Wimbush:
I mean you still have to meet the building code, building regulations, so if you’re building a house rather than a caravan or a 10, it’s got to have fire safety features, it’s got to be robust, etc.

Morag Gamble:
Yeah. So what are the, what are the features that you’ve built into this house that you think are really interesting and differently? I mean, I’ve noticed outside, there’s sort of, there’s this sod roof outside talked about, you know, wool installation. Is that a common thing here? Um, cause I noticed that you’ve got lots of more produce.

Tao Wimbush:
I mean, the main thing about this house is that it was built to be quick. We were in a situation, we had young kids, we were living in caravans. We needed to put up very quickly. So simple stud walls, Bush, Bush, Bush, Simple house shape. Yeah. And, you know, get yourself into the loop quickly and effectively. Yeah. Um, so then you can kind of move on to the land and carry on and have some fun.

Morag Gamble:
And where did you get the timber from and all that stuff?

Tao Wimbush:
So most of the timber is either from a local woodland or from our own woodland. Mostly we milled it ourselves. So we get mobile. So mill in ourselves. Yeah. It’s the finish is plaster lath. Like thin strips of wood. Off cuts, thin strips, and then passed over. It’s deliberately built off the ground when we go outside, you’ll see it kind of on so that no matter what, it’s always dry in here.

Morag Gamble:
That’s interesting because we have buildings up off the ground in Queensland because we want the air to come under and cooler buildings. So you’ve got them up to.. So how to keep it warm as well as dry.

Tao Wimbush:
So we’ve got the, there’s a range behind us, which we can cook on. Also we dump some of the electrical excess from the hydro.

Morag Gamble:
Very nice, nice, excellent. Yeah, it’s a beautiful space. And so here is a main room, dining room, kitchen… Upstairs you’ve got.

Tao Wimbush:

One of our bedroom is upstairs and then the bedrooms through there.

Morag Gamble:
Gorgeous! And you grafted, all these archways and..

Tao Wimbush:
You know cheap brown wood. Just used what we can. I mean, this has no commercial value. So..

Morag Gamble: 
Isn’t that..isn’t it amazing something that has no commercial value actually looks like it is so much more beautiful. It’s a shift thinking about resources and the same with, you know, like this beautiful, for me this is a gorgeous archway. It’s probably just, did you pick something you thought, Oh, that’s really nice.

Tao Wimbush:
Yeah. Just a few round wood features. Just some natural wood.

Morag Gamble:
It kind of makes you feel more comfortable in spaces that have natural form in it. You feel at ease.

Tao Wimbush: 
Maybe we come from the forest. Maybe it’s something deep.

Morag Gamble: 
It’s a beautiful permaculture design here. Thank you so much.

So that’s all for today. Thanks so much for joining us. Head on over to my YouTube channel, the link is below, and then you’ll be able to watch this conversation, but also make sure that you subscribe because that way we notified of all new films that come out and also the release of the extended tour of Lammas Ecovillage where we go into the landscape and the common spaces too. And also you’ll get notified of all the new, interviews and conversations that come out. So thanks again for joining us. Have a great week and I’ll see you next time.

Would you like to teach permaculture?

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Join a global network of [pr]activists addressing the interconnected crises humanity (actually, all life) is facing today.   The Permaculture Educators Program joins people together on 6 continents – from Nambucca to Nepal, Sikkim to Spain, California to Kakuma refugee settlement.

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Each Wednesday I will share more wonderful stories, ideas, inspiration and common sense for living and working regeneratively. Positive permaculture thinking, design and action is so needed in this changing world.

What is permaculture?

Take a look at my free 4 part permaculture series or Our Permaculture Life Youtube and my permaculture blog too. For an introduction to permaculture online course, I recommend The Incredible Edible Garden course. I also offer an online Permaculture Educators Program (Permaculture Design Certificate and Permaculture Teacher Certificate) and involve young people in permaculture through Permayouth (11-17yos). Please kindly support our registered permaculture charity, the Ethos Foundation, supporting refugee youth with free permaculture education, women’s community farms and more.

Thank you.

I acknowledge the Traditional owners of the land from which I am broadcasting, the Gubbi Gubbi people, and pay my respects to their elders past present and emerging.

Thank you Rhiannon Gamble for audio editing.

Thank you to Kim Kirkman (Harp) and Mick Thatcher (Guitar) for donating this piece from their album Spirit Rider.

The post One Planet Living with Tao Wimbush and Morag Gamble at Lammas Ecovillage, Wales appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

Find out in this special permaculture masterclass. I have the great pleasure of a great conversation with the creator of marine permaculture and founder of the Climate Foundation, Dr Brian Von Herzen . Brian also offers a 30 minute presentation giving the detailed background to Marine Permaculture.

I am delighted that Brian is one of the founding members of the Permaculture Education Institute . The Institute offers comprehensive Permaculture Educators Program that includes the only place in the world you can do both a Permaculture Design Certificate and a Permaculture Teacher Certificate online, and connects members with an amazing learning community on 6 continents.

Watch the Marine Permaculture Masterclass

Click the image below to watch the full Masterclass with Morag Gamble and Dr Brian Von Herzen. (1hr 20 mins)

Marine Permaculture in 2040

Marine Permaculture is featured in the film 2040: The Regeneration by Damon Gameau.

It is featured also in the accompanying book 2040: A Handbook for Regeneration . Here’s an excerpt from the film.

Marine Permaculture for Schools

Cool Australia has also collaborated to make a marine permaculture school worksheet for grade 7-8s.

Tasmania – the first marine permaculture array coming in 2020

The Intrepid Foundation has helped raise money the first marine permaculture array to be set up off the coast of Tasmania in 2020. Click here to find out more.

Marine Permaculture and Drawdown

Paul Hawken featured marine permaculture too in his wonderful book Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Roll Back Global Warming

Our beloved Australian science writer, presenter (and geek), Dr Karl, interviewed Brian at Woodford Festival in 2017.  Click on the image below to play this podcast with Brian and Dr Karl recorded at Woodford Folk Festival in 2017.

I am really very excited about the potential of marine permaculture and Brian is just such an inspiration. He is dedicating his life to this as a practical and positive response to the climate and ecological emergencies, and the immediate needs of many peoples that depend directly on the oceans for their daily survival and well-being.

Brian joins me for my free permaculture masterclass #20 via Zoom from Woods Hole Massachusetts which went live on November 25, 2019. We share a  conversation and a presentation . These masterclasses are always sponsored by the Permaculture Education Institute

The recording includes a fascinating extended conversation about Marine Permaculture and it was a chance to ask questions directly to Brian.

TRANSCRIPT OF LIVE Q&A WITH DR BRIAN VON HERZEN

Online Masterclass #20: Marine Permaculture 25 November 2019

with Morag Gamble, Permaculture Education Institute and Dr Brian Von Herzen, Climate Foundation

Q. Alison

Because you are able to circulate cool water, does that mean you can still plant the same species of seaweed that has been growing there, rather than changing to seaweed that is more tolerable of warmer oceans?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Alison, we find multiple local species can have a larger thermal tolerance, even different genotypes within the same species.  The warm adapted varieties we are working with now in Tasmania, for example.

Q. Robert

I am studying the incorporation of a variety of kelps into mussel aquaculture in New Zealand. Do you see potential for establishing large-scale multi-trophic kelp-shellfish forests in the open ocean.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Robert, we see strong potential for large-scale multi-trophic kelp and fish.  In regions where the microalgae plankton can be brought high enough, shellfish like mussels could thrive as well.

Q. Andrew

I imagine in places such as Bali, plastic is a major problematic threat to growing seaweed ?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Thank you for the question, Andrew.  I have seen plastic strongly affect the health of coral reefs and sea grasses.  It can also have an affect on seaweed and kelp forests.  A bigger issue may be the lack of fish that ensure ecosystem balance.  We hope that we can regenerate enough fish to restore balance to the kelp forest.  While the plastic problem is big, the lack of fish (and forest) we feel may be an even greater threat.

Q. Claudia

Hi Brian, Claudia from the Blue Mountains. I have a question. I’ve been working with Kelp tidal litter sourced from Sydney beaches for the past 4 years. We found in the ICP analysis high content of Arsenic in the tissue. What’s your insight on seaweed bioacumulation of toxic metals from urban runoff and how to minimize their potential as hazardous additive for soils

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Claudia, most of the arsenic you are measuring is likely organic As, which is 500 times less toxic than inorganic.  In addition, seaweed buffers As action and thus much of it is well tolerated.  Finally, there is a hormetic effect observed in which small amounts of As actually has been shown to increase health in mouse models.

Q. Mandy

We are in the Mediterranean (Perma Med, Mallorca) – where there is sea grass – Posidonia oceanica-which grows slowly but also can draw down carbon.  Posidonia oceanica are also stressed by climate change. Have you looked at sea grass options?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Mandy, seagrasses are great.  We are working on Nantucket with seagrasses right now.  And we hope to find partners to work with to bring Marine Permaculture to the Mediterranean as soon as possible.

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

In Kenya lake victoria, Water hyacinth invades Lake Victoria with no end in sight. The weed prevents sunlight from reaching other aquatic species and creates thickets too dense for fishing boats to travel through. what is the best option to handle this situation where the lake is being chocked completely??

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Jane, we have used floating freshwater ferns like Azolla to bring the nutrient levels down and reduce the effect of water Hyacinth.  The Azolla needs to be harvested regularly, and fed to livestock and used as mulch and compost.  As long as the tools are available for regular harvesting, the Azolla is a very powerful way to absorb excess nutrients and produce a green fertilizer and animal feed.  Chickens eating Azolla will have long-chain Omega-3 eggs with EPA and DHA so important for cognitive healthspan for much of the global population.

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

Can permaculture be achieved in fresh water Lake? can i get insight how?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Jane, yes, we believe it is possible with a balance of freshwater plants and fish and sustainable harvesting. Keep in mind that Azolla doubles its mass in 3 days, so it is important to have some small harvesting boats and equipment in place before this is done on a large scale,

Q. Alison

Is that red seaweed the type that helps to drastically reduce the methane output of cattle?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Alison, while the Asparagopsis genus has been identified to have some of the most potent methanogenic reduction, other seaweeds have strong benefits and may be less costly to produce.

Q. Robert

Hi Brian is the MPA Phase 4 System anchored to the ocean floor? If so, how is this done at a depth of 500 m?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Robert, ultimately the MPA Phase 4 system will be self-guided. That means that the system does not need to be moored on the seafloor, but can actual sail on the vertical shear of mesoscale eddies, much like a kite surfer but underwater.

Q. Kathryn

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I’m an ethics student and have been fascinated with the moral and ethical conflicts of geoengineering. What I love about Permaculture is that it’s almost fail proof – like what is the worst that can happen? Is this something that is already really regulated and is it up to the individual countries to allow this? What is the governmental response and what is the consequences on future generations. Noting that one of the challenges of geoenginnering (or some other types) is that we could be committing our kids and grandkids to continue to do it but also pay for it.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Kathryn, thank you for your question.  By having Nature as our guide, we can ensure that healthy kelp forests can be sustaining life in the seas and in our soils will continue for generations to come.  By enabling Nature to continue her work in fixing carbon, we can ensure healthy ecosystems and a planet with balanced carbon.

Q. Veronique

Dr Brian Von Herzen: any human food application of seaweed other than for gourmet tasting dishes?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Veronique, yes, seaweed is a great side dish.  Kelp salsa is my favorite so far!

Q. Mandy

Have you explored possible marina mammal entanglement issues in your designs?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Mandy, thank you for your question.  We are working to refine systems that will actually benefit marine mammals.  They are attracted to kelp forests and will be attracted to our kelp forests on marine permacultures as well.

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

what kind of nutrients do fire the growth of water Hyacinth?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Jane, nitrate and some phosphate would be the macronutrients.  Those are usually limiting.  Much farm runoff will have a lot of nitrate. 

Q. Edith Uhia

Natural Upwelling is crucial for Galician “Rías” richness in plancton, fish and shelfish. Due global warming the upwelling is being more erratic and small phenomenom. I’m so inspired with your work and I actually can see that it is something to try here in Galician coast (NW Spain)

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Edith Uhía, we would love to help Galician efforts to restore steady upwelling in your region!  Please get in touch with us at info@climateFoundation.org and let’s identify approaches on how to develop offshore projects in your area

Q. Andrew

Not sure about dairy, but certainly beef is not really that sustainable, considering the size of land required to feed a cow… not to mention methane. Food from the sea seems like a smart alternative.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Andrew, you are correct, food from the sea is probably the most sustainable.  But we live in a world where people will probably still be eating beef in 2030.  And many people love cheese and dairy.  With one part seaweed and two parts rotational grazing and soil management, we hope to achieve carbon-negative dairy in the new decade to come.  Less meat and less dairy is a good idea.  The remainder can go carbon negative and the seaweed can be part of the answer.

Q. Veronique

Is the approach sustainable in time or are we depleting our deep seas of nutrients in the long terms?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Veronique, Prof. Andrew Thompson in Environmental Studies at Caltech has confirmed that the deep water and nutrients are a renewable resource.  Each winter more deep cool water is produced off the shores of Antarctica, and that is not about to be decreased any time soon.

Q. Sarah

Is there a point where you see your system or something similar being used to support fishing industry? I don’t have much knowledge of or experience with marine systems, but i imagine it could be adapted to multiple species ,eg, oysters or those sardines you mentioned…. id also like to know if you think this is something the fishing industry could affordably adapt to make fishing more sustainable.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Sarah, yes the sardine fisheries industry are looking forward to working with us.

Q. Sarah

What i mean is for breeding species that are endangered.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Sarah, we would encourage local selective breeding to improve climate resilience for those species.

Q. Veronique

I work with Motor Neurone Disease patients. Some association to blue algae exposure has been determined. Any other algae that may not be of benefit?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Veronique, nearly all the 14,000 macroalgae species are nontoxic.  The cyanobacteria you may be mentioning are micro algae based.

Q. Cath

Apparently sales of azolla have been banned in the uk as it is considered highly invasive

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Cath, in some places Azolla has been restricted.  If the Azolla is not sustainably harvested, it can go anoxic and rot, as with any biomass. 

Q. Wendy

Is there a limit to the extent of ‘upwelling’ which can be done without further distorting the temperature gradients in the oceans in these areas? Will the displaced warm surface water then cool sufficiently as it is pushed deeper even though temperatures are increased overall?r

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Wendy Soares, Lockheed Martin has identified the amount of upwelling that can be done sustainably globally at approximately 140 tera-watts.  That level of upwelling will be difficult to achieve in our lifetimes.  We have confirmed that Antarctic cold bottom-water formation is assured for millennia to come

Q. Aaron

Hey! Aaron from The Living Classroom here, are there other aquatic companion plants that can be interplanted with the kelp to absorb by-products and increase growth?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Aaron, there are many epiphytes that grow all on their own in the kelp forest. 

Q. Django

Hi Brian, it greats to see the media attention on your work and nice inclusion in 2040, I remember coming across one of your early papers on Marine Permaculture Arrays quite a few years ago now. I have so many questions on implementation of this technology. I work in the enviro/marine freshwater sciences in far south coast NSW. I’m just wondering if you had any thoughts on how to engage the permaculture community directly in Australia and/or citizen science? And, how this could accelerate knowledge on localised conditions and appropriate species selection?  cheers,

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Django Van tholen, thank you.  we are looking forward to working with the global permaculture community to regenerate our seas as well as our soils.

Q. Robert

Here On the East coast ofNew Zealand we have a great opportunity with cooler water lacking significant thermokline, AND the very deep Kermadec trench providing opportunities for deepwater carbon sequestration. Our research project is developing Macrocystis and Ecklonia Hatcheries for transplant to both inshore and offshore mussel aquaculture farms. I would be very interested to build upon our capacity and experience through cooperation with your and the University of Tasmania’s work.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Robert, so glad to hear of your hatcheries! we would love to be in touch on this an for the mussel farms.  We would be happy to collaborate further.  info@climateFoundation.org

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

Therefore floating vetiver grass on pontoons to remove nutrients from polluted ponds and lakes can reduce water hyacinth? https://vetivernetinternational.blogspot.com/2008/12/water-clean-floating-vetiver-grown-on.html

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Jane, I would like to understand those grasses better, but many species can provide sustainable drawdown of macro nutrients from the lakes, resulting in clearer water.

we would be happy to read more information on Vetiver grass if you have more information you can send to us at info@climateFoundation.org

Q. Sarah

I’d love to know more about the freshwater versions of this.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Sarah, please check the Azolla comments above and the Azolla slides- we are doing some tests near lake Tahoe.

Q. Mandy

We have a Marine Permaculture Program on Mallorca and be interested in connecting with your work team.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Mandy, we would love to connect.  Please email us on info@climateFoundation.org as a start

Q. Veronique

Thank you Brian. This is all great news and many solutions. Surely this would the reason to justify a large number of funding grant!!

Q. Claudia

Brian, have a published book on Marine Permaculture?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Claudia, we are now beginning to work on a book, we have some material from the Santa Barbara Workshop in May 2019.  The lecture and morning workshop are on youTube, search Santa Barbara Marine Permaculture and my name.

Q. Steph

@Claudia in the meantime I highly recommend Sunlight and Seaweed by Prof Tim Flannery!

Dr Brian Von Herzen

Steph, thanks for that, we are mentioned on page 122 of that book

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

Dr. Brian, I will be glad to connect for further interactions. I will email you.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Jane, thank you, happy to connect

Q. Andrew

Dr Brian and Morag – great stuff , a lot of information to take on board. We have azolla growing in bathtubs in our Community garden. Never knew you could feed it to the chooks ! Thanks very much !

Q. Alison

Will there be volunteering/citizen science opportunities for the project down in Tasmania, or other areas in Australia? I am permaculture trained..

Q. Edith

Amazing Masterclass and chat!!! Thank you so much!!! My brain is “boiling” now with so much interesting and useful information!!!

Q. Jane Wegesa Fraser

hope we can do something here in the ocean and fresh water lakes…

Q. Steph

Any ongoing projects currently in Indonesia?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Steph, we did a BEC demo last year and have plans for 2 more site surveys in INDO in April!

Q. Mandy

We also work with tribes in Alaska and would be interested for collaborating there too. Thanks for this opportunity Dr Brian and Morag.

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Mandy, the Alaskan seaweeds are amazing. There are stories of people surviving in  regions of Alaska for months on nothing but seaweed!

Q. Claudia

Thanks Morag and Brian. It has been very informative and inspiring

Q. Alison

So so so exciting!!! Brilliant! Thankyou!

Q. Lauren

Thanks Morag & Brian 🙂 Fascinating and inspiring stuff 🙂

Q. Kerry

Thankyou for such a wonderful session. So interesting and inspiring

Q. Louise

how many types of seaweed are there and which are best and are any detrimental?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Louise, there are 14000 species of macroalgae seaweed identified and practically all of them are nontoxic.  There are times and places where our climate disruption causes imbalance, resulting in temporarily too much seaweed in places but we hope to solve that very soon now with increased seaweed markets

Q. Liz

Very inspiring! be great to apply to the Gippsland Lakes. I wonder what the relationship might be between that huge warming around Tasmania and dramatic increase in fires.

Q. Jacinta

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, so insightful and inspiring!

Q. Robert

In addition to making contact with the climate foundation and Morag’s permaculture education;It would be good to maintain a link to all the webinar participants Perhaps through a Facebook page or via twitter. Would this be possible Morag?

Q. Morag

Robert. Great idea. Brian and I will chat to see what we can do.

Q. Alison

Wondering about volunteering/WWOOFing opportunities re the Tasmanian project, to learn about Marine Permaculture and be able to support the projects? Maybe that will become clearer as the project happens?

A. Dr Brian Von Herzen

Alison, happy to explore volunteering, please contact volunteer@climatefoundation.org . We have been exploring how we can engage in the WWOOFing community as well. Find out more: http://www.climatefoundation.org/your-help.html

The post Marine Permaculture – a way to reverse climate change & repair marine ecologies. Masterclass with Morag Gamble and Dr Brian von Herzen appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

My (then 12 yo) daughter filmed this conversation I had with the inspirational and innovative permaculture designer, Natalie Topa, in her apartment in Nairobi. My kids and I visited her at the end of our month journey in Uganda and Kenya working with local permaculture projects that you helped us raise fund for through Ethos Foundation and we sponsored through Permaculture Education Institute.

Balcony Permaculture

There are chickens on the balcony, mealworms in the main room,  perennials in pots, hardy herbs, greens and self-seeding vegetables, vertical trellises, edible vines for shade, habitat for wildlife, homes for pollinators, ceramic plates full of seeds being saved, mushrooms, ferments, dried foods and a tank for a future spirulina project.

Mixed pots of herbs, vegetables, fruit, roots, medicines everywhere growing in balcony-made compost.

Permaculture for displaced people

Natalie Topa experiments relentlessly to find simple positive solutions that can make a real difference in the lives of many. She is the Regional Resilience and Livelihood Coordinator, Danish Refugee Council – which she says is essentially about sharing, exploring and adapting permaculture ideas.  She oversees teams building resilience for displaced peoples, including refugees and internally displaced peoples, in the countries of Kenya, Djibouti, Somalia, Uganda, Ethiopia, and Yemen.

Natalie collecting seeds from local farmers, experiments with growing them in small spaces. Access to good seed for resilient foods is essential for displaced communities.

Insights for a changing climate

For the past 16 years, she has been based in Africa and SE Asia working in community development, post-disaster recovery, post-conflict community and town planning, and community resilience and adaptation to climate extremes and disasters.  Natalie’s insights are incredibly valuable in a climate changing world, where people are already feeling the impact.

One of Natalie’s many indoor insect experiments to produce healthy food for chickens from urban waste.

Permaculture laboratory

As we wander through her permaculture apartment in her home base of Nairobi, Natalie talks about how this balcony garden is her experimental lab for the work with displaced people who have little space, little resources and mostly waste to work with. During this conversation she shares simple permaculture design ideas that can make a huge difference and she shares some stories of how this is happening. 

Star bean – a resilient food and tea source – as well as microclimate moderation and organic matter for soil building.

We talk about ways to use wastes, make soil on a balcony, create small ecological systems, grow a diversity of foods, produce protein and share surpluses, and explore & learn from traditional cultures.

Eggs from balcony chickens. Natalie gets 6 eggs a day.

Balcony Garden Film with Natalie Topa (40 mins)

I hope you find this 40 minute walkabout with Natalie full of wonderful inspiration. As we walk and talk, Natalie shares so many great lessons for food resilience, learning how to live with a small footprint, getting rid of waste – and also about climate resilience, working for the common good, being a permaculture educator, being a permaculture designer…

For more information about small space permaculture design, watch my masterclass: Small Space Kitchen Garden: The Permaculture Way

I was so delighted to meet Natalie in her home in Nairobi and was so inspired by her work. You can follow her facebook here: Nat and Friends: Permaculture and Resilience Design 

The post Balcony Permaculture: Morag Gamble visits Natalie Topa’s apartment in Nairobi appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

You are not alone! Over 1700 people registered to join my free permaculture masterclass in August 2019. The topic was “How to Cultivate your design eye and see the possibilities“.

Lots of people share your frustration and of knowing where to begin.

I receive many questions around this topic and in this session, I hope to demystify the design process and help you cultivate your design eye, unlock your permaculture design thinking and create great designs.

Click here to watch the August masterclass on how to start a permaculture design.

Monthly Masterclasses

This recording is part of my free monthly permaculture masterclass series. On the last Monday of every month I offer a free online class on a permaculture topic that has been nominated by participants of the Permaculture Educators’ Program and previous masterclass attendees.

The September 2019 masterclass will be focussed on permaculture strategies to add carbon into the soil.

Get your invitation to the next masterclasses

Sign up to be notified of any new masterclasses. They are all free.

Related youtube clips to help you design your permaculture garden:

 Reference

This book was mentioned in the masterclass: Landscape Graphics, Grant Reid

Be guided in creating a design for your place. Learn with Morag

• Permaculture Educators’ Program . A comprehensive online program including Permaculture Design Certificate and Permaculture Teacher Certificate .
• The Incredible Edible Garden: online permaculture gardening course

These programs are designed to help you create your thriving permaculture garden, life and livelihood. Click the links above to find out more.

The post How to start a permaculture design. Morag Gamble’s Permaculture Masterclass #17 appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

I remember an old saying from an Australian farmer about the variability rain – too much, too little, too late, or too soon.  As gardeners, we need to plan for this variability.  As water can be one of the limiting factors for healthy plant grow, there are a few simple strategies you can use in your garden that will make a difference between a thriving crop of kale or a fairly mediocre one.

The six points I discuss are:

1. slow it
2. spread it
3. sink it
4. store it
5. reuse it
6. plant well

I hope you enjoy this masterclass and feel free to have a look at my other ones.

Here are links to two other masterclasses:

• Masterclass #11: Permaculture Design for Happy Chickens and Eggs
• Masterclass #10: 5 Ways to Compost In-Situ

The post How to create a water saving garden appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

This is the question I explore in Masterclass #11.

Chickens are such a perfect companion in a permaculture garden.

Even with a small garden and a few chickens, it’s amazing how many simple and healthy meals you can create that all the family will love.

Garden harvest – eggs, greens, herbs, salad.

Garden Harvest Recipe

You can find my recipe for our household’s favorite ‘garden greens eggy bake’ here

Watch Masterclass #11: Permaculture Design for Happy Chickens & Eggs

The key points are cover are:

1. connected design
2. diverse food
3. low maintenance design
4. natural setting
5. love and care

The post Morag’s Masterclass #11: Permaculture Design for Happy Chickens appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.

Once a month, on a Monday night, my free online permaculture masterclass go live to air. The most recent Monday night lecture was about the 12 Permaculture Design Principles – how to apply them in your garden and life. You can watch it below.

The topics so far have been:

• Masterclass #1 12 Keys to creating a thriving and abundant kitchen garden
• Masterclass #2 Seven steps to superb soil
• Masterclass #3 How to start a food forest
• Masterclass #4 Five keys to Creating a perennial and self-seeding garden
• Masterclass #5 “How to apply Permaculture Design Principles in your garden and life

These sessions start at 8pm (Brisbane time) and go for around an hour including time from Q&A.

REGISTER NOW

Register now for Masterclass #6: Seven tips for making an abundant no-dig garden. It is literally a few click. I will be broadcasting live on Monday 30th April at 8pm. If you can’t make it to the live session, still register and I’ll send you a link to the recording so you can watch it later.  In preparation, you may like to watch my movie: How to Make a No-Dig Garden: Morag Gamble’s Method for Simple Abundance

WHERE DO I FIND THE MASTERCLASS RECORDINGS 

Each masterclass is recorded and shared to those who register. After a couple of weeks, the masterclasses are moved to into the resource pages of Our Permaculture Membership Community as a resource.  Click the link to find out more the membership and how to join for around $1/day.

The post Permaculture Design Principles appeared first on Our Permaculture Life.